Thoughts on stock on track storage.

mojo · July 01, 2021, 02:47:25 PM

My 10' x 3' mainline layout has stalled, yet again!
The reason being on-board storage of stock and the best way to create this.

I prefer to watch trains running but in a sequence not just round and round.
I have probably about 16 different train formations which I want to use in a varied sequence.

My first attempt was a dog-bone style layout with curved storage roads holding 8 x 48" trains, but this meant that always 1 train was followed by the same next train.

I then tried a 16 road traverser but this had problems due to reliable connections and lining up of track and also restricted access to reach over to the scenic area to recover derailments.

Next came a series of cassettes, these have similar problems of power connections as did the traverser. The main one however was the delays in carefully selecting/removing and handling 48" cassettes so as to avoid derailments which led to an unacceptable delay in seeing a train running on the scenic section.

I am now considering fans of sidings in a storage yard and from past experiences this needs to be open and not covered by scenery. this would I think improve the time taken to select a train and run it on the scenic area. BUT it would also mean reducing (scrapping) half of the width of my scenic area and would I think ruin the look of the entire layout.

What are the opinions of others running similar style layouts, or are there more options?

Maurice C.

ntpntpntp · July 01, 2021, 02:58:08 PM

You mean this kind of arrangement?

This is an exhibition layout so the objective is to send a reasonable selection of trains round for the public to enjoy. Each yard line actually split in half electrically so we can accommodate something like 26 trains, though we usually have one or two longer trains occupying a full line.
The way we operate at shows is by keeping one half-line empty at the back of each yard, running a half-length train out and round into that back half. What was at the rear of the first train then moves to the front. The next train can then be selected from any of the trains at the front, usually the next line in the fan, or we can run a double length train all the way round and back into its line.
This way of working naturally shuffles the trains in the yard over time. It's something that could be automated however we're happy to keep it manual and give ourselves something to do. Also helps if we get a request to see a particular train again

Size-wise, the above layout is 12'8" * 3'2" so just a little longer than yours.

Southerngooner · July 01, 2021, 03:33:54 PM

Hi

If you've seen any pics of my Brickmakers Lane layout you will see it's nearly 4m long and only 900mm wide. Only 100mm of the width is hidden. With that width restriction I can't afford storage sidings or the layout becomes long and narrow in the visible area which is a problem with many layouts built with wide fiddle yards. I am tweaking the design a bit and adding a pair of loops at the back but as these will be about 5m long I intend to split them up into three sections each, allowing six trains to be stored. I also intend to make a spot for cassettes somewhere so I have a bit of choice.

It very much depends on how you want to work your layout. Is it a home layout, where it's not necessary to keep things going as per an exhibition layout? If so, you can set the pace of trains coming round into the scenic area so perhaps the answer is not to be too impatient on seeing stuff come round. If you only change one direction (I assume it is a double track layout?) at a time and keep one train circulating, you can then see your other stock passing that as you change those trains over. Repeat on the other line and you've seen all of your stock as some point.

As an operator on James Street which doesn't have a hidden yard it does make you realise that there are other ways to do things rather than following the norm and I've tried to reflect this in my own layout. Storing stuff on view doesn't bother me but you do need the storage sidings to do it. I've got a six road carriage shed and a large goods yard to help with that., plus a folded eight main line to give a good length of circulation for main line trains.

Have a good think about what you want to do and why, and explore what else is out there, plus don't be afraid of thinking out of the box a bit!

Dave

jpendle · July 01, 2021, 03:50:20 PM

How about a helix at both ends and storage either under or over the main layout.

Or variations on a theme of having the layout split over two levels.

John P

Steven B · July 02, 2021, 09:00:17 AM

Make the storage sidings a scenic feature:

66133 66550 66083 66118 Doncaster Down Decoy by British Rail 1980s and 1990s, on Flickr

Easy to do with freight stock, possibly a bit harder to do realistically with passenger stock, but could carriage sidings could be combined with a small loco depot to give a extra layer of operational interest.

Steven B

Railwaygun · July 02, 2021, 05:45:49 PM

Or a Nelevator?

martyn · July 02, 2021, 05:59:26 PM

Quote from: Steven B on July 02, 2021, 09:00:17 AM
Make the storage sidings a scenic feature:

66133 66550 66083 66118 Doncaster Down Decoy by British Rail 1980s and 1990s, on Flickr

Easy to do with freight stock, possibly a bit harder to do realistically with passenger stock, but could carriage sidings could be combined with a small loco depot to give a extra layer of operational interest.

Steven B

Which is exactly what Steve has done on the original part of 'James St', and what southerngooner was alluding to. The new extension will enable locos to be changed in the yards, giving more operational interest, and 'different' trains to run.

Make the yards part of the visible layout!

Martyn

Chris Morris · July 02, 2021, 06:02:11 PM

I use the old fashioned storage sidings round the back. I have six tracks in each direction. On previous layouts I've split some of the storage roads but now each road only holds one train. With 12 trains I've built up a sequence where ea h train runs through the scenic area twice. Some stop once and some always go straight through. I run trains at realistic speeds and the sequence takes me 35 minutes to go through. I get plenty of variety and plenty of movement so I'm satisfied. I do have four different sets of stock so I tend to run one set for a month or so and then swap over to another.

Keeps me happy.

njee20 · July 02, 2021, 08:39:03 PM

Quote from: Railwaygun on July 02, 2021, 05:45:49 PM
Or a Nelevator?

I'd probably rather chew my arm off than give them money right now, if you can even get hold of them! Shame, as a great idea, and they do look good, but far too many people waiting years for no product.

I'm also a fan of the classic 'storing trains in an offstage area". I think storing them on the layout can look a bit contrived, but then that Doncaster photo proves the prototype for everything, even if you're very unlikely to ever see 3 coal trains in such proximity any time soon!

Gordon · July 02, 2021, 10:55:15 PM

Quote from: martyn on July 02, 2021, 05:59:26 PM
Quote from: Steven B on July 02, 2021, 09:00:17 AM
Make the storage sidings a scenic feature:

66133 66550 66083 66118 Doncaster Down Decoy by British Rail 1980s and 1990s, on Flickr

Easy to do with freight stock, possibly a bit harder to do realistically with passenger stock, but could carriage sidings could be combined with a small loco depot to give a extra layer of operational interest.

Steven B

Which is exactly what Steve has done on the original part of 'James St', and what southerngooner was alluding to. The new extension will enable locos to be changed in the yards, giving more operational interest, and 'different' trains to run.

Make the yards part of the visible layout!

Martyn

Agree with this idea. We adopted it for our club French outline layout so that all our lovely expensive stock didn't 'hide round the back' at shows. Our freight yard has space for six or seven long freights or even more shorter ones, and our layout is geographically set to feature loco changeovers. The problem with UK prototypes in recent times is the lack of yards, let alone busy yards, compared to what is still found in Europe.

If a UK layout is set in an earlier era however, there would be justification for a busy freight yard and well stocked carriage sidings

Southerngooner · July 03, 2021, 08:36:49 AM

There will be more examples of real life storage sidings from the pre-1980's era I suspect, but they are still out there. As an example of what you could do, the Mid-Norfolk Railway has been storing new and life expired stock on its line on sidings laid for the purpose, giving you the chance to have modern stock stored and collected/delivered while preserved steam and diesel trains pass by. That gives you licence for stock from almost 100 years if you include the forthcoming visit of "Flying Scotsman".......

Dave

Steven B · July 03, 2021, 11:27:37 AM

I think the biggest problem with scenic fiddle yards is that a row of trains sitting side by side with locos attached isn't that common (unless you're modelling Doncaster Decoy yard as shown above!).

James St works because it's big enough to locate the stationary trains around the layout without it looking contrived.

Doing it on a smaller scale and I think you're going to have to work in some engine exchanges to make it look realistic, but this will add some extra operational interest to the scene.

I'm guessing I'm not alone in spending as much of my time at exhibitions trying to see the contents of the fiddle yard as I do the scenic section out front.

Steven B.

ntpntpntp · July 03, 2021, 11:53:47 AM

I prefer a hidden fiddleyard to represent "the rest of the world" and also as the place to set out and remove trains, swap locos etc. without the "hand of god" in the scene.

That's not to say I don't also like a few visible sidings or passing loops to show trains. Referring back to the overall view I posted way back at the start of the thread, you'll see there are two bi-directional freight loops in the station area. These loops offer the opportunity for different movements and also a means of further shuffling the train sequences.

Quote from: ntpntpntp on July 01, 2021, 02:58:08 PM

Gordon · July 03, 2021, 01:59:40 PM

Quote from: Steven B on July 03, 2021, 11:27:37 AM
I think the biggest problem with scenic fiddle yards is that a row of trains sitting side by side with locos attached isn't that common (unless you're modelling Doncaster Decoy yard as shown above!).

Steven B.

This was my point about European yards. They do still commonly have trains waiting to go with locos attached, for example:
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/_qu18Zb6Qas/maxresdefault.jpg

njee20 · July 03, 2021, 03:21:34 PM

I have to agree with Steven, the other problem is that many people will have a hugely diverse range of trains, which tends to be even more unprototypical. So people will have a container train, and a coal train, and a tanker train etc. But it's even less common for those to all be stabled together. In that photo of Doncaster it's three coal trains and an engineering train.

They're also rarely full. Even in Gordon's photo it's about 1/3 full. Most people will fill their storage areas, further compounding it looking contrived IMO.