UK n gauge sound models a ripoff??!!

[stevewalker]

It is easy enough to read the DCC data that is being sent to the tracks, so it should be simple enough to implement a sound system that responds just as an in-loco sound decoder would, but for the sound system to be stationary, attached to decent sized speakers and to be able to respond to and produce sounds for multiple addresses at the same time. Much easier than trying to squeeze sound into small locos, cheaper when you have many locos and able to adjust or mute the volume of all locos at once if needed.

A more advanced version could use position feedback of the locos to "follow" a loco around using quad speakers and could also adjust (due to knowing location) for working hard uphill, coasting down, etc.

[Fardap]

It is easy enough to read the DCC data that is being sent to the tracks, so it should be simple enough to implement a sound system that responds just as an in-loco sound decoder would, but for the sound system to be stationary, attached to decent sized speakers and to be able to respond to and produce sounds for multiple addresses at the same time. Much easier than trying to squeeze sound into small locos, cheaper when you have many locos and able to adjust or mute the volume of all locos at once if needed.

A more advanced version could use position feedback of the locos to "follow" a loco around using quad speakers and could also adjust (due to knowing location) for working hard uphill, coasting down, etc.

Am sure I saw a system that was like this, with discrete speakers around the layout and matched position to loco, also played ambient sounds on another channel through all speakers. Might have been a dream though... or just a conversation with someone!

[cutting42]

It is easy enough to read the DCC data that is being sent to the tracks, so it should be simple enough to implement a sound system that responds just as an in-loco sound decoder would, but for the sound system to be stationary, attached to decent sized speakers and to be able to respond to and produce sounds for multiple addresses at the same time. Much easier than trying to squeeze sound into small locos, cheaper when you have many locos and able to adjust or mute the volume of all locos at once if needed.

A more advanced version could use position feedback of the locos to "follow" a loco around using quad speakers and could also adjust (due to knowing location) for working hard uphill, coasting down, etc.

Am sure I saw a system that was like this, with discrete speakers around the layout and matched position to loco, also played ambient sounds on another channel through all speakers. Might have been a dream though... or just a conversation with someone!

Yes the Freiwald 4D sound system https://www.freiwald.com/pages/sound.htm

Same company that make the Train controller computer control software

[njee20]

I wouldn't give them a penny of my money, the guy's an idiot!

[cutting42]

I wouldn't give them a penny of my money, the guy's an idiot!

OK, I am curious. I was intending at some point to use their software for computer control, is there a reason not to?

[Bigmac]

I remain totally underwhelmed by sound from locos in both N and 00 - its more of an annoying tinny rattle than a proper sound experience, and as for the representation of a diesel horn - please just don't bother.

Hi Chris,

I used to think this too, but I was recently (well, a few months ago) watching some locomotives puttering about and they were some distance away, probably the equivalent to how far - in scale terms - we are from our N gauge models at 'normal viewing distances.'  I noticed that the treble sounds travelled far more than the bass sounds, meaning that from a distance locomotives *do* sound more tinny.

Having said that, my hearing isn't the best (as anyone who knows me will testify!) so it might just've been me!

cheers

Ben A.

But with a recording of a real train played through a trackside speaker I can make the floor shake! For some reason doing this doesn't make me very popular with others in the household.

sounds better than in loco speakers--must be a lot less expensive too. Whats not to like ?

One thing folk might not like is that it is more of a watching the trains go by than a driving the train experience. Having said that, as someone who has been on a diesel driving experience day (expensive but worth every penny), the sound from a chip in a loco isn't a lot like the sound inside the cab. My whole sound set up cost me nothing at all. I used a free app on my PC to edit sound files to the correct length, a free soundpad app on my smartphone so I can select and play the sound I want at a touch of the screen and a decent bluetooth speaker that I already had.

Without giving too much away the last minute of my Dawlish Warren video for the NGF virtual event gives an idea of what can be achieved with a smartphone soundpad and a decent speaker under the layout. I did edit the sounds onto the video when making this but I can and do do it when running trains. Not for everyone but it does it for me when I am in that sort of mood.

This is a video of the passing sounds used on my last layout. This time the sound is as recorded when videoing with my smartphone. I was controlling the trains, pressing the buttons for the sound and filming all at the same time! Who says men can't multi-task?

For best results play this video loud through a decent sound system, phone speakers just don't replicate the experience. They are too small - like the speakers in N gauge locos.

i did just that--cast your youtube clip to my TV--then sound out through theater system.  Shook the room !

[Fardap]

It is easy enough to read the DCC data that is being sent to the tracks, so it should be simple enough to implement a sound system that responds just as an in-loco sound decoder would, but for the sound system to be stationary, attached to decent sized speakers and to be able to respond to and produce sounds for multiple addresses at the same time. Much easier than trying to squeeze sound into small locos, cheaper when you have many locos and able to adjust or mute the volume of all locos at once if needed.

A more advanced version could use position feedback of the locos to "follow" a loco around using quad speakers and could also adjust (due to knowing location) for working hard uphill, coasting down, etc.

Am sure I saw a system that was like this, with discrete speakers around the layout and matched position to loco, also played ambient sounds on another channel through all speakers. Might have been a dream though... or just a conversation with someone!

Yes the Freiwald 4D sound system https://www.freiwald.com/pages/sound.htm

Same company that make the Train controller computer control software

Yes that was it someone I visited had the train control and sound from them I think - certainly I have seen the website before.
Have to say rather annoying looking at the 'pricing' that UK is the most expensive option on there at $180 (not sure why it is shown as USD) most others are $149 or €117 it would seem... it's like Eurovision all over again 

[Newportnobby]

I wouldn't give them a penny of my money, the guy's an idiot!

@njee20 I think that statement requires some clarification please.

[njee20]

Herr Freiwald has a long history of extreme volatilty and unreasonable business practices. He refused to ship to any US state which voted for Trump. Upon the Brexit referendum result he increased fees to the UK (for a download product). In response to one particualrly prolific user of TrainController saying how he often showed it to visitors at exhibitions, he was told he needed to purchase a retailer licence, and was threatened with having his licence cancelled, rendering the layout inoperable.

He has a history of refusing to resolve issues people have with the software. He bans any users from the Freiwald forum if they criticise the product or ask awkward questions. A lot of users say they only use it because they've invested so much.

I guess the sound product is probably quite low risk, but I would not expect any sort of follow up or aftersales, and like I say, I wouldn't give him a penny, mainly on principle!

Edit: tagging @cutting42 as I missed your quote pertaining to this! I'd implore you to look at alternative software like Itrain. It's not quite as well featured, but they are innovating more, and the chance of your layout suddenly being bricked by the whims of one man are markedly less!

[Newportnobby]

Thanks, Nick,
Sounds like someone to swerve then

[Fardap]

Herr Freiwald has a long history of extreme volatilty and unreasonable business practices. He refused to ship to any US state which voted for Trump. Upon the Brexit referendum result he increased fees to the UK (for a download product). In response to one particualrly prolific user of TrainController saying how he often showed it to visitors at exhibitions, he was told he needed to purchase a retailer licence, and was threatened with having his licence cancelled, rendering the layout inoperable.

He has a history of refusing to resolve issues people have with the software. He bans any users from the Freiwald forum if they criticise the product or ask awkward questions. A lot of users say they only use it because they've invested so much.

I guess the sound product is probably quite low risk, but I would not expect any sort of follow up or aftersales, and like I say, I wouldn't give him a penny, mainly on principle!

Edit: tagging @cutting42 as I missed your quote pertaining to this! I'd implore you to look at alternative software like Itrain. It's not quite as well featured, but they are innovating more, and the chance of your layout suddenly being bricked by the whims of one man are markedly less!

That clarifies the bizarre pricing regime then... hates the UK so charges them more... maybe he was in charge of collating Eurovision votes... 

Does sound a risk based on those rather odd activities, certainly doesn't sound like good business sense.

[east anglian]

Don't   know   if   this   is   the  right   place  for    this   comment   but   here   goes,    I   ordered   a   3D  print   of  a   GT3  from   Shapeways   and  somehow   got    lost   in   transit,  I   then  contacted   their  Customer   Services  and   they  reprinted  and   I   had   a   replacement   within   3   days    then   the  lost   one    turned   up  but   was  slightly     damaged   then   offered   to   return   the   model   but   was   told   I   could   keep   them  both   with  an    apology  for   the   inconvenience   it    had    caused,   I   wish   every  supplier  could   adopt    the   same   level    of   service,    10    out   of  10   in   my   eyes   

[cutting42]

Herr Freiwald has a long history of extreme volatilty and unreasonable business practices. He refused to ship to any US state which voted for Trump. Upon the Brexit referendum result he increased fees to the UK (for a download product). In response to one particualrly prolific user of TrainController saying how he often showed it to visitors at exhibitions, he was told he needed to purchase a retailer licence, and was threatened with having his licence cancelled, rendering the layout inoperable.

He has a history of refusing to resolve issues people have with the software. He bans any users from the Freiwald forum if they criticise the product or ask awkward questions. A lot of users say they only use it because they've invested so much.

I guess the sound product is probably quite low risk, but I would not expect any sort of follow up or aftersales, and like I say, I wouldn't give him a penny, mainly on principle!

Edit: tagging @cutting42 as I missed your quote pertaining to this! I'd implore you to look at alternative software like Itrain. It's not quite as well featured, but they are innovating more, and the chance of your layout suddenly being bricked by the whims of one man are markedly less!

Thanks for the feedback. I had a very old version of RR&Co  (5.8 I think) and had a play probably 15 years ago and liked what I saw. I had always intended purchasing a legit version once I got into layout construction but life keeps getting in the way. I am not especially invested in RR&Co time wise and have not bought anything so far so your advice is well timed. Seems a shame and a rather odd way of running a business, maybe it is more of a hobby, in which case probably best not to spend time and effort on it.

[njee20]

Yes that's another concern, I believe he's getting rather older, and has shown no indication of handing the business (which is very much a one-man band) on to anyone else, so I'd expect support to cease suddenly and irretrievably!

I agree it's a shame, there was a long running thread on RMWeb with all of the insights. It also appeared to be the de facto layout operating software, but given the sums involved and the headaches if it all fell apart, I'd avoid!

[Railwaygun]

Don't   know   if   this   is   the  right   place  for    this   comment   but   here   goes,    I   ordered   a   3D  print   of  a   GT3  from   Shapeways   and  somehow   got    lost   in   transit,  I   then  contacted   their  Customer   Services  and   they  reprinted  and   I   had   a   replacement   within   3   days    then   the  lost   one    turned   up  but   was  slightly     damaged   then   offered   to   return   the   model   but   was   told   I   could   keep   them  both   with  an    apology  for   the   inconvenience   it    had    caused,   I   wish   every  supplier  could   adopt    the   same   level    of   service,    10    out   of  10   in   my   eyes   

repost / move it here?

https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?board=136.0

https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?board=19.0