LNWR breakdown train

[PGN]

I'm just putting together an LNWR breakdown train.

I'm assuming that I am pretty free in choice of motive power, since it would probably go out headed by whatever happened to be in steam when it was needed. In my case, that means a "Prince of Wales tank" 4-6-2T.

The train consists of a 4-wheel carriage (Worsley Works North London stock), tool van (Graham Farish), travelling crane (Fleischmann) and match truck (Graham Farish 3-plank), two 5-plank wagons (Graham Farish) and LNWR brake van (Newman Miniatures 3D print).

The coach is the first etched kit I ever built, and runs on a modified Lima chassis. I've been looking for a use for it for some time, as I would need a whole bunch more of them to make up a North London train (fixed-formation 10 coach sets, I believe ... ). The locomotive, coach and brake van are already in LNWR livery. The crane is a new acquisition (the first one I've seen that doesn't have a dirty great enclosed operator's cab making it look way too modern) and the other vehicles are generic Farish types which have yet to be put in appropriate livery.

My question is, what IS appropriate livery? Should the tool van and trucks be in standard LNWR goods livery, or was the LNWR one of the railways which used a different livery for its departmental stock (e.g. "ED" rather than company initials)?

And what about the crane. At the moment it is bright red, which I have to say IS rather attractive. But it this an appropriate colour scheme, or do I need to repaint it (and if so in what colours)?

So before I go on a time-consuming information hunt, I just wondered whether maybe somebody here already knows the answers?

[Ali Smith]

"LNWR Liveries" (Talbot et al, HMRS 1985) has a photograph (Plate 113) of the Crewe breakdown train, or at least the riding vans and tool van. The riding vans are ex-WCJS sleepers and the tool van is a specially built bogie vehicle (also shown at plate 116).  The coaches are described as being "horse box brown" which is apparently a purple brown colour used as a cheap imitation of the expensive purple lake used on revenue passenger coaches. Judging from these images I would say the tool van is the same colour. The crane is sadly not depicted nor can I find any text concerning it's colour.
I assume the red colour of the crane is a German livery, but it was also used by British Railways from the late fifties. Before that BR often used the locomotive mixed traffic livery, which of course is the same as LNWR. I have no idea whether this is correct but it would look rather snazzy.
"The North Western at Work " (Preston Hendry & Powell Hendry, PSL 1990) has a photograph of the Rugby breakdown crane on page 48, the riding vans being apparently also former WCJS sleepers but these are six-wheelers. No tool vans are visible, but the crane can be seen.  Unfortunately the picture appears to date from early BR days so there are no useful livery clues and I suspect the crane is too modern.
I'm not old enough to remember these things first hand, but neither is anybody else.

Hope this is of some help.

[PGN]

Thanks Ali ... it sounds as if we're heading towards "nobody knows" territory here ... which isn't the end of the world!

I like your description of your location ... it sounds decidedly like my own county of residence, which might reasonably be described as Arseendofnowhereshire, and no longer views itself as "progressive" ...

[CumbriaPhil]

The only pictures of breakdown cranes I can lay my hands on immediately are in a volume entitiled Railway Heritage The London and NorthWestern Railway by Edward Talbot published by Silver Link in 1996.
One picture shows an accident in Willesden yard in about 1908 which shows two breakdown cranes, one a quite small handcrane, the other somewhat larger but hidden behind the vans in the breakdown train. It is obviously in black and white so it is difficult to tell any colours but the cranes do look lighter in colour than the engines.
The 2nd picture shows an accident in 1906 with the first steam crane ever owned by the LNWR and the only crane constructed by the LNWR itself having been built in 1900. Unfortunately in this view the crane is largely hidden by the wrecked carriage but again the colour of the jib looks lighter than the carriage 'plum' colour.
Not really much help I'm afraid and my best guess would be they were in the standard goods livery or some close variation thereof.

[Ali Smith]

I like your description of your location ... it sounds decidedly like my own county of residence, which might reasonably be described as Arseendofnowhereshire, and no longer views itself as "progressive" ...
[/quote]
Bedfordshire it is. I'm in Bedford, which would win Apathy Town of the Year Award if it could be bothered to enter.

[PGN]

The only town in England to have ever LOST a king! 

(Someone once said to me "What about Leicester?" ... but they just kept theirs in safe storage. They didn't let him get washed away. Actually, I have this theory, you know ... when Offa was washed away, he became separated from his funereal coin and was unable to pay Charon the ferryman. So he just had to sit there at the mouth of the Ouse, usable to pay his fare to cross the Styx with compound interest mounting up, for century upon century, until who should pass by but John Lackland! And when old John's treasure fell with a splash (or was it a splosh) into the waters of the (shall we settle for splosh? That way it rhymes) Offa gleefully scooped it up and used it to pay his passage. And this, of course, explains why neither Offa of Mercia, nor king John's treasure, has ever been seen again.

I'm just down the road from you, in Elstow. (The number of times I have carefully spelled that out to people ... and they STILL send things addressed to me in "Elston" ... why do I even bother???) Used to be in Kempston & District MRC, but now a member of Olney MRC.

How about yourself?

[Ali Smith]

The last time I went to Elstow was by accident. I'd travelled up from Ampthill and couldn't find my way onto the bypass. I also got lost trying to get to the Interchange Retard Park, but failing to get there is not a total disaster.
I was a member of Bedford and District Model Railway Society many years ago. I'm now in the Northants & Cambs branch of the N gauge Society, but of course we haven't met for a year.

[PGN]

I was a member of Bedford and District Model Railway Society many years ago.

Nice to know ... I still bump into Steve round town from time to time!