British N gauge: Nothing but frustration and technical issues

[ECMLfan]

So I have been collecting British N gauge models for quite some years now and finally taken the plunge and build some baseboards. In the end I now have two baseboards up and between them is a 3mm difference in height. I have loads of Kato unitrack so decided to lay an oval just to run some trains, test things out and practice some wiring for DCC.

Then I started running some trains. I got loads of 66's and I got 13 HOA behind them. Guess what... The damned machines stall getting them up the 3mm incline which isn't even 1% sloped. Then I god out a 60... Never ran before. Straight out of the box... In bounced on its bogies like I have never seen before. Just like it is skipping some gears.

Then I got a brand new class 68 on the track and it randomly uncoupled and also struggled getting 13!!! Cars up a gentle incline.

Then I thought this must be me doing something wrong so I picked up my oldest loco... A 23 year old Fleischmann Br218 and got it in front of their 13 HOA's.... No problem at all, silent and was happy doing round after round....

So I'm planning a layout with two helixes and long freight trains... But recent experiences with both Dapol and Farish "quality" have liked to me re-thinking committing to any more investments in British N gauge, and this does include a substantial numbers of outstanding orders with RevolutioN...

No words describe how led down I feel by both large makes of British N gauge and I wonder if I can do anything before throw in the towel, sell it all off and restart by investing in Swiss model trains... I did try Bullfrog snot on both two class 66's and a 70 and to no avail...

Sorry for my little rant, but I am utterly frustrated in what should have been a pleasant way to spend some time...

[silly moo]

Story to hear you are having such trouble.

You could try running your British locos in for half an hour in each direction at a moderate speed before you load them up with lots of wagons. This is what the instructions advise. Some may need a running in for a bit longer.

If they have been stored for some time the gears may need some lubrication.

[njee20]

Revolution wagons are conventionally weighted to NMRA standards, which makes them fairly heavy. Dapol 66s (and 68s) are very underwhelming on haulage, so that may be a poor combination. A Farish 66 should manage that just fine, although to be honest I'm a bit surprised a Dapol one wouldn't.

I need to do some experiments with gradients and HOAs myself, as I suspect they'll be my heaviest train. Until the IPAs arrive at least!

The 60 sounds like split gears, which is frustrating, but a trivial fix. Farish N Spares sell the parts.

[guest311]

I run in, and when not used often re-run, locos on a simple oval from a farish train set, bought ages ago.

I run 'forwards' for 15 minutes, then in reverse for 15 minutes, then lift the loco off turn it round, and then repeat, so it gets ...

15 minutes forward on left hand curves
15 minutes reverse on left hand curves, then the same on right hand curves.

was advised on this at a show one day, when the guy I was talking to explained that always running in one way, left curves or right, can affect the wipers.

didn't understand really, but it made sense in a way.

the alternative, if you have room, is a figure '8' loop.

[Chuffington]

The run around loops at the channel tunnel for Le Shuttle are designed so that one curves left & the other curves right to even out the wear on the wheel flanges.
Similarly, overhead power lines meander left to right to even out wear on the contact face of the pantograph so you don't get a groove in one place.

[Maurits71]

So I have been collecting British N gauge models for quite some years now and finally taken the plunge and build some baseboards. In the end I now have two baseboards up and between them is a 3mm difference in height. I have loads of Kato unitrack so decided to lay an oval just to run some trains, test things out and practice some wiring for DCC.

Then I started running some trains. I got loads of 66's and I got 13 HOA behind them. Guess what... The damned machines stall getting them up the 3mm incline which isn't even 1% sloped. Then I god out a 60... Never ran before. Straight out of the box... In bounced on its bogies like I have never seen before. Just like it is skipping some gears.

Then I got a brand new class 68 on the track and it randomly uncoupled and also struggled getting 13!!! Cars up a gentle incline.

Then I thought this must be me doing something wrong so I picked up my oldest loco... A 23 year old Fleischmann Br218 and got it in front of their 13 HOA's.... No problem at all, silent and was happy doing round after round....

So I'm planning a layout with two helixes and long freight trains... But recent experiences with both Dapol and Farish "quality" have liked to me re-thinking committing to any more investments in British N gauge, and this does include a substantial numbers of outstanding orders with RevolutioN...

No words describe how led down I feel by both large makes of British N gauge and I wonder if I can do anything before throw in the towel, sell it all off and restart by investing in Swiss model trains... I did try Bullfrog snot on both two class 66's and a 70 and to no avail...

Sorry for my little rant, but I am utterly frustrated in what should have been a pleasant way to spend some time...

Buddy , have you ever looked at my video's, 450 metres of track, all British N Gauge, 5 Helixes a good 60 loco's and long trains so ....... Maybe ........

[ECMLfan]

I have Maurits and would love seeing your layout sometime when I getnover to the UK.

As per someone else's advice I took the 10 HHA hoppers out of their box and picked the poorest performing loco... It did struggle a bit... Then I took the 70 and some others and they ran much better then with the HOA's.

I also contacted Hattons and asked if they got traction tyres. One pack with 10 is on order and I will install 2 on a loco to see if it fits and performs better.

Again, sorry for my rant but I really had it and was already considering my options for selling almost everything but the Pendolino's (yes they are beautiful)

[crewearpley40]

Following nick njee20s comment :    https://www.farishnspares.co.uk/index.php? Bob is very helpful

[weave]

Hi,

Might not be anything to do with your problems but just to say that Kato track has feelings too and if it is just clipped together in an unfixed oval there can sometimes be electrical problems erased by slight finger pressure on the track joins. A 3mm board height difference would only enhance this if not a proper fixed incline.

Some locos will work on such a set up and others will stall (I model all continental), maybe weight or pick ups differences.

Just a thought and apologies if nothing to do with your problems.

Cheers weave 

Good luck and hope it all gets sorted.

[Maurits71]

I have Maurits and would love seeing your layout sometime when I getnover to the UK.

As per someone else's advice I took the 10 HHA hoppers out of their box and picked the poorest performing loco... It did struggle a bit... Then I took the 70 and some others and they ran much better then with the HOA's.

I also contacted Hattons and asked if they got traction tyres. One pack with 10 is on order and I will install 2 on a loco to see if it fits and performs better.

Again, sorry for my rant but I really had it and was already considering my options for selling almost everything but the Pendolino's (yes they are beautiful)

Buddy, use Bullfrog snot ( not a joke ) to improve tracktion

[ECMLfan]

Buddy, use Bullfrog snot ( not a joke ) to improve tracktion

I have it but I'm still not sure how much I need to apply, aka, I don't see any satisfying results thus far.

[Maurits71]

loco upside down, apply power to the wheels so that they turn very slowly, apply a thin layer with a tooth stick, leave it to dry for 24 hours and you're the man

[PLD]

I now have two baseboards up and between them is a 3mm difference in height.

First thing you need to do is correct the difference in height! The prototype would struggle with an 18 inch step so the model will have no chance...

I did try Bullfrog snot on both two class 66's and a 70 and to no avail...

That will probably make things worse... You are 1) reducing the number of wheels available for electrical pick-up and 2) causing a differential in wheel diameter between the coated and uncoated wheels. depending on which wheels are treated, this will either lift the smaller wheels off the track or cause the smaller wheels to slip even more, so either way are contributing less to the overall tractive effort.

I also contacted Hattons and asked if they got traction tyres. One pack with 10 is on order and I will install 2 on a loco to see if it fits and performs better.

Don't try fitting traction tyres to wheels that aren't intended to have them! again it will reduce electrical pickup and cause a differential in wheel size...

[Bigmac]

loco upside down, apply power to the wheels so that they turn very slowly, apply a thin layer with a tooth stick, leave it to dry for 24 hours and you're the man

i use diluted copydex instead of snot--far cheaper.

[njee20]

Most Farish locos will destroy the gear at at the top of the bogie tower if you run them upside down too. Never do it.

I agree with PLD, Bullfrog Snot/Copydex on the wheels causes more problems than it solves, particularly in N.