How are the models numbers selected for manufacture?

[LASteve]

Hi - Tank/George, please move this to a more appropriate forum if I'm in the wrong place ...

I've been watching an eBay auction for a CL40 - D369 - and I started to wonder why that number? Why wasn't D1 - "Scafell Pike" offered? Was it the expense of the nameplate?

What of the great CL47's namers - 1662 -"Isambard Kingdom Brunel" or 1663 "Sir Daniel Gooch".

Do manufacturers go generic for a reason? I think the D369 model is lovely, and I wish I could afford it, but wouldn't it get a price-jump if it was "notable"?

4462 is notable and identifiable. Woudn't a humble Class 40 get a lift it had "1" on the cab side?

Genuinely interested in what y'all have to say.

[Bealman]

An interesting question, which I can't answer, but I can tell you it's ok where it is. 

Got my curiosity up.... looking forward to responses!

[crewearpley40]

Steve. Is it a farish 371181?  Would this answer the title:     https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/140512-how-to-know-the-difference/

[LASteve]

Hi Chris

Thanks for the info - no, it's more of a general question of when GF or Dapol pull the trigger on a production run, which liveries or numbering do they decide on?

I know there are some obvious modern liveries which will sell well, but when you're back in BR Green or BR Blue, how do they decide that D369 is a great choice? I'm sure the loco served well, but wouldn't as a modeller you'd rather see "D1" or "D5" (the only Peak Namer I saw, on the Fawley Oil Train). Showing my age.

The CL47's were mostly unnamed until 1661, the 40's were named from 1-10 then a large gap. I'm not surprised, there are only so many "peaks" in England and you run out of them pretty quickly.

It's a whole other topic about why or whether locos were named. The Hymeks never were, despite being surrounded by Westerns and Warships. The Cromptons went about their anonymous business until much later when all kinds of weird names were attached. I don't think a CL25 nor a CL31 was ever named, but the Deltics all were? A mystery.

They used to name shunters, but the CL08 put paid to that. It seems sad that you toil away in your goods yard and you're never more than a number. I hope some old railwaymen had nicknames.

Just wondering.

[crewearpley40]

25322 tamworth castle. 31105 bescot and, 31106 Spalding 4.5.02 to 30.6.09, 31130 Calder hall power station, 146 brush veteran  , 233 severn valley railway 6.5.93 to late 1999  , 289 phoenix  ,31271 Stratford 1840 to 2001  ,31327 Philips imperial  , 413 took over 233s plates  , 423 Jerome k Jerome  , 601 the mayor of caster bridge when it was bournemouth Weymouth to Salisbury based. Ok I get the point steve

[LASteve]

Some great numbers and names there, @crewearpley40 . Thanks Chris! Maybe Dapol and GF should take a look at that list.

[exmouthcraig]

Great question Steve 

I would imagine, but usually wrong, do they not try and select a kind of generic loco out of the fleet??

Quite a few had things in slightly different places and naming a loco technically should make it an exact replica of that and IF there were parts only on that one or in a different place or a slightly different size they then cant use the tooling for other versions and makes a lot of work for the modeller   

An official word from manufacturers behind the reasoning would be nice.

[LASteve]

Quite a few had things in slightly different places and naming a loco technically should make it an exact replica of that and IF there were parts only on that one or in a different place or a slightly different size they then cant use the tooling for other versions and makes a lot of work for the modeller   

I think you nailed it. I'm not a purist but if I was and I saw "D1" I'd be paying close attention. Not that I'd be able to tell any difference between D1 and D369, but I'm playing this by ear 

[Graham Walters]

Having spoken to Hornby and several others about this I can give a somewhat objective reply.

If the engine still exists then there is copyright, and a manufacturer would pay so much to the owner of the copyright, if the owner is a trust or preserved railway, they can also specify how many can be produced for that sum.

If the engine doesn't exist, then the title to the number (or name) passes to the people that scrapped it, unless BR retained the number, (which they did in 99.9% of cases)
This is where my knowledge gets sketchy, I think now that York museum owns most of the designs and patents that were taken out, so reproduction of any engine probably has to be bought off them.
As for why one number and not another, that could simply be down to the drawings that are available

[Bealman]

That's interesting.

I could tell the LMS twins, but that's probably about all.

With the availability of etched brass nameplates and stuff like that these days, wouldn't it just be a matter of sticking them on, and away you go, your own model?!

Or are there subtle differences that only those in the know are aware of?

I know I wouldn't notice unless someone pointed them out to me! Hell, I'd be lucky to see the nameplate!

[Graham Walters]

That's interesting.

I could tell the LMS twins, but that's probably about all.

With the availability of etched brass nameplates and stuff like that these days, wouldn't it just be a matter of sticking them on, and away you go, your own model?!

Or are there subtle differences that only those in the know are aware of?

I know I wouldn't notice unless someone pointed them out to me! Hell, I'd be lucky to see the nameplate!

If  you watch some of the old BR an regional films on YT, you soon learn that everything on these engines are interchangeable.
Some of them on major services even had refurbished boilers fitted !

The naming of engines was o0riginally done by railway companies in the very early days to recognise benefactors and investors, it then became a tradition, we Brits have to give everything a name !
Numbering was purely an inventory thing to keep track of servicing and timetabling
With Scotsman it was originally the service that was called the "Flying Scotsman" that gradually became associated with one engine which was the most regular on the run.

[railsquid]

I think you nailed it. I'm not a purist but if I was and I saw "D1" I'd be paying close attention. Not that I'd be able to tell any difference between D1 and D369, but I'm playing this by ear 

Err, if it's any help, they're completely different classes - D1 was a Class 44 and D369 a Class 40.

Also if it's any help, D1 has also been produced by Farish, see e.g.: Graham Farish 371-201 British Rail Class 44 Peak 'D1', though hard to find now.

[woodbury22uk]

One influence might be having good quality all round photos of a locomotive which matches what can be achieved from the tooling suite. Standard release in basic livery needs to be in the range for easy renumbering. With named versions removing the nameplate easily and cleanly would present a challenge for a simple renumbering to a standard un-named version.

[railsquid]

With the availability of etched brass nameplates and stuff like that these days, wouldn't it just be a matter of sticking them on, and away you go, your own model?!

Or are there subtle differences that only those in the know are aware of?

I know I wouldn't notice unless someone pointed them out to me! Hell, I'd be lucky to see the nameplate!

Well you can't just go and stick a "Sir Hogwash Philistine" nameplate on the Dapfar model of the Class 49 because the model represents the locomotive as it was before the mercury inverter intake inlets were plated over, etc. etc.

[crewearpley40]

Wonder how old this is, whether it's in stock ? ......       https://www.hampshiremodels.co.uk/products/graham-farish-371-201-n-gauge-br-green-class-44-d1-scafell-pike