British Steam passenger trains for newbie

[emjaybee]

Yeah, but who's ever seen a crimson lake, whereas I've seen a blue garter with my own eyes!

Sorry, I've only just got that!

[Steven B]

Hello all, new guy from the USA just getting back into trains after 49 year absence. I love the looks of the Hall Class and the Jubilees and want to find one of them with DCC and sound installed and 3 or 4 passenger cars. I have not decided on which livery to go with. If you can make any recommendations and where they might be obtained I am open to suggestions. Great information on this site and I am learning a lot. Thanks for the help!

Neither the Farish Jubilee or Dapol Hall are available with factory fitted sound (both are DCC ready with sockets for 6-pin decoders). There's an earlier Farish Hall but it is not DCC ready and is less detailed than the current range of models, that said the older model will probably out-haul the more modern models.

Both
Farish Jubilee and Dapol Hall can be fitted for sound

If you want sound fitted from the Factory then you need to look for the Farish Castle or 8F. I don't believe Dapol have released any steam locos that are factory fitted for sound.


You don't say what era you're looking at modelling so suggesting coaching stock is harder. For pre nationalisation (1948) and early BR (before 1951) you'll need to look a Dapol's Collett or Farish Hawksworth coaches for the Hall. The Jubilee will need the Staniers produced by Farish. Post 1951 BR's Mk1 would start appearing, initially in the longer distance express trains. Crimson/Cream, maroon or BR(W) chocolate/Cream would be appropriate for BR days. For pre-BR you'll need GWR chocolate and cream for the Hall's coaches, and LMS crimson for the Jubilee.

Train formations are tricky. Both Hall and Jubilee were used on middle-long distance trains which were normally longer than the 3-4 you have space for. That said, I'd suggest:
BCK-SK-SK-BSK
or
SK-SK-CK-BSK

where:
BCK - brake composite (brake coach with 1st & 2nd/3rd seating) in compartments
BSK - brake second (brake coach with second class seating) in compartments
CK - composite (1st & 2nd/3rd seating) in compartments
SK - second class seating in compartments

The SK-SK-CK-BSK is more typical of shorter rakes - this formation is an accurate Crewe-Preston train from 1969 for example.

The BSK-SK-SK-BCK is a representation of longer trains which normally had brake coaches at each end. Modellers often fall in to the habit of doing the same regardless of train length despite there being plenty of real 3-5 coach long formations with only one brake coach.

For a three coach train, drop one of the SK

Personally, at this length of train I wouldn't bother with either a buffet car or one that is 100% first class.


Steven B.

[Karhedron]

Hello all, new guy from the USA just getting back into trains after 49 year absence. I love the looks of the Hall Class and the Jubilees and want to find one of them with DCC and sound installed and 3 or 4 passenger cars. I have not decided on which livery to go with. If you can make any recommendations and where they might be obtained I am open to suggestions. Great information on this site and I am learning a lot. Thanks for the help!

Not surprising you like both Jubilees and Halls. William Stannier (who designed the Jubilee for the LMS), originally studied at Swindon and took some of their ideas with him when he went to the LMS.

The Jubilees were Crimson when built and would have run with coaches such as the LMS Staniers (also produced by Farish).



In BR days they were painted green. Initially they would have run with Crimson and Cream coaches and later Maroon ones. These would have been stanier coaches initially with increasing quantities of BR Mk1 coaches appearing over the years.

The Halls were painted in green when new and would have had either "Great Western", the Shirtbutton monogram or "G(crest)W" on the tender before 1948. They would have run with Chocolate and cream coaches (Collett from Dapol or Hawksworth from Farish). After 1948 they were painted in black livery and would have run with Crimson and Cream Collett, Hawksworth or BR Mk1 coaches. From about 1956 onwards they started being painted green again but this time with the BR crest on their tenders. They would have run with Maroon coaches, again either Collett, Hawksworth or Mk1. They could sometimes be seen hauling BR Mk1 stock in chocolate and cream livery but this was used for top express trains only in the BR period so would normally have had a Castle or King at the front.

Some good Hall photos here.

https://railway-photography.smugmug.com/GWRSteam-1/Collett-Locomotives/Collett-460-designs/Collet-Hall-4900-Class-4900695/Collett-Halls-Pre-1968

Jubilees can be found here.

https://railway-photography.smugmug.com/LMSSteam/Stanier-Locomotives/Jubilee-Class/Jubilee-Class-Pre-1968

[Pacecars]

So thanks to Newportnobby I will have a Crimson Jubilee and now need to decide on which cars to get which y'all have given me some good info on. I have put just about every crimson LMS coach on eBay on my watch list and am hitting the bigger UK hobby sites

[crewearpley40]

Ah your modelling pre 48 ? LMS days

[Karhedron]

Farish's Stanier coaches in Crimson Lake livery would be the most appropriate. I am not entirely sure what would constitute a suitable rake.

Other vehicles that might be of interest are the Inspection Saloon (originally produced by the NGS but now part of the Farish range) and the Stove-R (also produced by the NGS).

[Steven B]

Train formations are tricky. Both Hall and Jubilee were used on middle-long distance trains which were normally longer than the 3-4 you have space for. That said, I'd suggest:
BCK-SK-SK-BSK
or
SK-SK-CK-BSK

Further to my earlier suggestions:

BTK CK CK TK BTK (Nottingham to Manchester Central)
TK TK BTK CK BTK (Sheffield to Worcester)
BTK TK CK CK TK BTK (Sheffield to St Pancras)
TK TK BTK CK BTK (Derby to Bristol)
BTK CK TK BTK (Bradford to York)
BTK CK TK + BG parcels vans (St Pancras to Nottingham)


Personally, I'd get:
2x 374-825 Stanier Brake Third LMS Crimson Lake Coach
1x 374-840 Stanier Vestibule Third LMS Crimson Lake Coach

Unfortunately Farish don't appear to have done the composite in LMS colours (but they do it in BR maroon).
You could use a Farish 374-845 Stanier First Corridor LMS Crimson Lake to make up to a four coach train, or instead get two 374-840 and replace one of the brake thirds with a brake-first (374-830)

For some variety you could also add:
374-885 Stanier 50ft Full Brake LMS Crimson Lake

Alternatively, if you model it in LMS colours post preservation you can run with a rake of Mk1s in Blue/grey!
https://www.flickr.com/photos/13296226@N02/4693801673/

Steven B.

[Karhedron]

Another possibility for limited space is a milk train. Milk trains ran from rural areas into London, picking up tankers as they went. Because the milk needed to arrive quickly before it went sour, express engines were often used and the train could be quite short for such a big loco.

LMS 4-6-0 Jubilee class No 5642 'Boscawen' passes Rugby No 5 Signal Box with a short train comprising milk van two coaches and a parcel van.

[Newportnobby]

Alternatively, if you model it in LMS colours post preservation you can run with a rake of Mk1s in Blue/grey!
https://www.flickr.com/photos/13296226@N02/4693801673/

Or as a West Coast Railway Company train with maroon MK1s/WCRC 374-213 and 374-214
Here's 45699 'Galatea' in LMS Crimson doing just that...........

Jubilee Galatea 45699 on 'Fellsman' 21.8.18 by Mick Hollyoake, on Flickr

[crewearpley40]

Was going to mention looking at one of your videos mick @Newportnobby , the only coach he would have fun with would be the roller blind on the support coach

[emjaybee]

Another possibility for limited space is a milk train. Milk trains ran from rural areas into London, picking up tankers as they went. Because the milk needed to arrive quickly before it went sour, express engines were often used and the train could be quite short for such a big loco.

LMS 4-6-0 Jubilee class No 5642 'Boscawen' passes Rugby No 5 Signal Box with a short train comprising milk van two coaches and a parcel van.

That's a great photo, yet another example of an unusual consist.

Is the second vehicle a full brake? It looks like it has less windows.

[Karhedron]

Is the second vehicle a full brake? It looks like it has less windows.

I think so. I am not too hot on LMS vehicles (I am more of a GWR man ) but it looks similar to the one offered by Farish.



The milk tanker looks like this one from Dapol.

[crewearpley40]

Looks like an lms 50ft gangwayed brake van . Farish catalogue : 374885

[emjaybee]

@Karhedron that's exactly the vehicle I was thinking. It just goes to show you can pretty much run what you like with anything, it's probably been done somewhere before in real life.

Thanks for the photo, it's rare to see a colour photo from that era that's not a 'company' promotional pic.

@crewearpley40 that's the vehicle in Karhedrons post.

[crewearpley40]

Yes thanks @emjaybee was only helping by making a mention of the vehicle