Concrete Sleepers under points and crossings - Southern in the 1970s

[Bob G]

I'm building a Minories style L-shape track plan as a seaside/harbourside terminus in 1970 -1975 somewhere between Weymouth and Littlehampton, with third rail electrification and a quay line buried in the roads. I have all the stock in display cabinets - just no layout!

Imagine the scene: BR Blue era. But dirty. Run down. Three day week.
03/07/08 shunters. Grubby parcels vans. 33, 71 and 73 on parcels to London.
31 or 35 on Bristol cross-country trains, depending which end of the era is running.
47 in TTG on inter regional parcels and 52 on Yeoman stone trains shuttling to the quayside (yes really, but its to hide the fiddle yard with some Weymouth Quay-esqe type buildings )
4-TC and 33/1 to Reading.
4-CEP and MLV to London Victoria fast
4-VEP to London Waterloo semi-fast
2-HAL/2-HAP/2-EPB on Coastway services to the east
Thumper on Coastway services to the west.

And its all RTR in OO. Yes sorry but this is an OO vision.

Now back on track to the question.

All my modelling life I have believed the Peco mantra that concrete sleepers are not used under points because the point has to be manufactured individually, and so wood has always been used under points and crossings, even where many miles of concrete sleeper track has been used elsewhere on the main lines.

For my N gauge modelling I have always thought concrete sleepers looked a bit naff, and so everything I have built to date in N has been in streamline code 80 wooden sleeper pattern.

But for this homage, I see that Peco do make medium radius concrete sleeper points in code 75 in OO.

So my three questions are:

1. When was concrete sleeper track introduced on the Southern Region?
2. Was concrete sleeper track used only on main lines and wooden sleeper track retained in sidings?
3. When were concrete sleepers first used under points and crossings?

Hope you guys know the answers.

And dont worry. This is supposed to be a quick project. I'll continue with N at the same time

Bob

[exmouthcraig]

Sounds like a good plan Bob!!!!

Not that my SR knowledge is great I would guess that the concrete sleeper would of become widespread when the change was made to welded rail. Was that early 70s or maybe even 60s?

I looked into using concrete sleeper track for Clifton Wood and found that most thinking was that concrete sleeper points only became widespread until the 90s

Nothing definitive from me unfortunately

[Bob G]

Sounds like a good plan Bob!!!!

Not that my SR knowledge is great I would guess that the concrete sleeper would of become widespread when the change was made to welded rail. Was that early 70s or maybe even 60s?

I looked into using concrete sleeper track for Clifton Wood and found that most thinking was that concrete sleeper points only became widespread until the 90s

Nothing definitive from me unfortunately

I think your "so-called" quick project Clifton Wood inspired me!
Bob

[njee20]

1. A quick look at photos of some of the major SR stations shows concrete sleepers in 1970. I suspect Weymouth retained wood for a lot longer, Littlehampton somewhere in the middle!

2. Yes, definitely, even now lots of sidings retain wooden sleeper bullhead track. Crawley Yard is still laid this way now

3. Much later, post privatisation, so you can ignore that for sure

[gavin]

London Bridge throat was only changed from wooden as the upgrade happened so in the last 5 years   

[flyingsignalman]

 Rock Ferry South Junction, on the Merseyrail Chester line, was renewed with concrete sleepered points in the late 1990s/early2000s. I can't remember the exact date.
I believe it was an early example of their use.

[njee20]

London Bridge throat was only changed from wooden as the upgrade happened so in the last 5 years

And an interesting example it is now too, with concrete bearer scissor crossings.

[Bob G]

I never fail to be amazed at everyone's knowledge.
Thanks guys.
Bob