Hatton's Beyer-Garratt

[woodbury22uk]

I don't think any crowdfunded N Gauge steam loco has reached its production hurdle to date.

Just a point of information - the Hattons B-G isn't "crowdfunded".  Hattons are testng the market by inviting expressions of interest with no commitment to buy.  Money is not being taken and used to fund production of the model if you place a pre-order.

I think that there's a lot wrong with how they are approaching this project - the choice of prototype for their first N steam loco, and that they are going about soliciting expressions of interest in a very half-hearted and inefficient manner - but this is not a DJM-type risky project as far as the consumer is concerned. 

In fact, apart from the unlamented DJM I'm not sure that I can think of a single crowdfunded N loco project - they have all been low-risk expressions of interest.

Cheers,

Richard T

Might be true for steam, but everything from RevolutioN has been crowdfunded including an electric loco, Pendolino, DMUs and EMUs. The Sonic 56xx is not crowdfunded.

[Richard Taylor]

I don't think any crowdfunded N Gauge steam loco has reached its production hurdle to date.

Just a point of information - the Hattons B-G isn't "crowdfunded".  Hattons are testng the market by inviting expressions of interest with no commitment to buy.  Money is not being taken and used to fund production of the model if you place a pre-order.

I think that there's a lot wrong with how they are approaching this project - the choice of prototype for their first N steam loco, and that they are going about soliciting expressions of interest in a very half-hearted and inefficient manner - but this is not a DJM-type risky project as far as the consumer is concerned. 

In fact, apart from the unlamented DJM I'm not sure that I can think of a single crowdfunded N loco project - they have all been low-risk expressions of interest.

Cheers,

Richard T

Might be true for steam, but everything from RevolutioN has been crowdfunded including an electric loco, Pendolino, DMUs and EMUs. The Sonic 56xx is not crowdfunded.

I think we might have different understandings of "crowdfunding".  My understanding is that crowdfunding is when the consumer pays up front for the costs of developing and producing the item on the understanding that these payments are at risk if the project does not succeed - the DJM way of business, where he was spending customer's money as he went and relying on future payments to see the project through (or, in his case, robbing Peter to pay Paul to stay afloat.)

This type of "crowdfunding" has now got a very bad name in model railway circles thanks largely to DJM, which is why other more reputable manufacturers (or, rather, commissioners) do not like the term being applied to their business model. 

I would not regard anything Revolution have done as having been "crowdfunded" - Revolution ask for expressions of interest with no cash commitment, and if they receive enough to indicate that the project is worthwhile then they start the design and production process and invite pre-orders. These pre-orders only require you to put down a deposit (if you want to support Revolution by paying the full amount up front you can, but they don't insist on it) and Revolution then bear all the costs of design and development and you don't pay for the model until it actually exists and is ready for delivery. 

That's not "crowdfunding" in my book, but YMMV.  I just don't think Revolution, or Hattons, would be happy to be labelled as crowdfunders.

Cheers, Richard

[woodbury22uk]

Revolution describe themselves as crowd-funders on their home page.

https://www.revolutiontrains.com/

Anyway we both know the difference between DJModels and Revolution.

i agree that Hattons are definitely not crowd-funding the BG.

[Snowwolflair]

Crowdfunding is where expressions of interest are asked for with a commitment to pay if the critical number of funders or the total funds meet a pre determined level. 

You do not pay until this number is reached but you are committed to pay if it does.

IMH no N gauge model has been strictly crowdfunded and that is why it has all gone wrong.

The closest and most reputable is Revolution as they don't ask for an upfront financial commitment, trusting in their customers to pay up against expressions of interest. 

[Richard Taylor]

Thanks all - interesting discussion.  I'd missed the reference on Revolution's page!

RT

[Thorpe Parva]

If Hattons & Bachmann could put any past issues behind them then this would appear to be an ideal candidate for the EFE Rail range. The downside would be that the price would not be as low as the £199 still quoted on the Hattons website.

[Snowwolflair]

After the Rails fire Bachman may be forced to make peace with Hattons

[Newportnobby]

After the Rails fire Bachman may be forced to make peace with Hattons

@Snowwolflair Rails haven't had a fire, David. The Fire Brigade had to forcibly enter their premises to check for occupants. They have suffered some smoke damage but most of the mail order stuff is stocked off site

EDIT: From RMWEB, posted by Oliver of Rails of Sheffield.
"I am pleased to report that all is well at Rails. The fire was in the property adjoining the Emporium.
Minor damaged was caused to both the Emporium and flat above. The majority if this damaged was made by the Firemen who had to break into both the shop and flat to check for occupants and spreading of the fire. Luckily the fire hadn't spread to us and all residents were safe and well.
So we have a little bit of water and smoke damage in the flat and require a couple of new doors and a shutter. A full emporium deep clean is also taking place.
All new mail order stock is held off site so is unaffected. The business continues to function as normal.
We would like to thank the South Yorkshire Fire Department for all their efforts on Sunday, as things could have been a lot worse!
Our thoughts go out to the victim of the fire who I hear is still critical in hospital. "

[Snowwolflair]

After the Rails fire Bachman may be forced to make peace with Hattons

@Snowwolflair Rails haven't had a fire, David. The Fire Brigade had to forcibly enter their premises to check for occupants. They have suffered some smoke damage but most of the mail order stuff is stocked off site

EDIT: From RMWEB, posted by Oliver of Rails of Sheffield.
"I am pleased to report that all is well at Rails. The fire was in the property adjoining the Emporium.
Minor damaged was caused to both the Emporium and flat above. The majority if this damaged was made by the Firemen who had to break into both the shop and flat to check for occupants and spreading of the fire. Luckily the fire hadn't spread to us and all residents were safe and well.
So we have a little bit of water and smoke damage in the flat and require a couple of new doors and a shutter. A full emporium deep clean is also taking place.
All new mail order stock is held off site so is unaffected. The business continues to function as normal.
We would like to thank the South Yorkshire Fire Department for all their efforts on Sunday, as things could have been a lot worse!
Our thoughts go out to the victim of the fire who I hear is still critical in hospital. "

Good to hear, the first reports by the local rag were far more worrying.

[Newportnobby]

After the Rails fire Bachman may be forced to make peace with Hattons

@Snowwolflair Rails haven't had a fire, David. The Fire Brigade had to forcibly enter their premises to check for occupants. They have suffered some smoke damage but most of the mail order stuff is stocked off site

EDIT: From RMWEB, posted by Oliver of Rails of Sheffield.
"I am pleased to report that all is well at Rails. The fire was in the property adjoining the Emporium.
Minor damaged was caused to both the Emporium and flat above. The majority if this damaged was made by the Firemen who had to break into both the shop and flat to check for occupants and spreading of the fire. Luckily the fire hadn't spread to us and all residents were safe and well.
So we have a little bit of water and smoke damage in the flat and require a couple of new doors and a shutter. A full emporium deep clean is also taking place.
All new mail order stock is held off site so is unaffected. The business continues to function as normal.
We would like to thank the South Yorkshire Fire Department for all their efforts on Sunday, as things could have been a lot worse!
Our thoughts go out to the victim of the fire who I hear is still critical in hospital. "

Good to hear, the first reports by the local rag were far more worrying.

Have you ever known the press to let the truth get in the way of a good story?

[Roy L S]

I would think that there is more chance of Lord Lucan being discovered on the moon with Elvis in a London Bus than there is of Hattons or anyone else of producing RTR Beyer Garratt in N now.

It isn't unreasonable to conclude that as a consequence of Hattons' and Bachmann's "disagreement" N Gauge sales at the said retailer will be far less than they were and I wonder whether we will ever see an N Gauge product with the "Hattons" brand on it now.

That said, from some of the feedback I have read regarding certain O and OO products I am wondering if I actually dodged a bullet!

So I am instead keenly awaiting Sonic's next steam loco...

Roy