Minitrix dinosaur

[Bob G]

@Jfheath  I have in my possession (somewhere in a box behind my railway I guess) some original history pamphlets for Minitrix, Farish and IIRC Wrenn. They were written in the 1980s for collectors, as to which boxes are the right ones etc.
If I ever find them I will scan them and send you a copy. I paid about £2.50 for each pamphlet.
It had the Minitrix history, including the overlap with Peco (the Mk 1 coaches were once called Wonderful Coaches, and the BP tanker was originally Minitrix too).

I too was interested in the early Minitrix and made sure I had collected every 27, Warship (including one supposedly never made), Britannia and 9F made.
However the collecting bug is just that with me. I like to be able to say I once owned that one, so I sold all of my early Minitrix, Farish and Wrenn a few years back.
Didnt get much for them, so they are not likely to fund a pension pot even now

Best regards
Bob

[msr]

Here is my Warship, purchased 15 Aug 1970 from H.A. Blunt & Sons (formerly Bold & Burrows Ltd), who had recently moved to 10-12 High Street, St Albans. My notes state it was bought in a Minitrix polystyrene box with card lid. The bogies have built-in buffer beams, in contrast to the more modern design which had the buffer beams integral with the body. Perhaps the latter were the German models and the former were from Wrexham?

[Bob G]

There are three Warship chassis. ALL German in design.

The one you have is the Mk 1.
The Mk 2 has a plastic insert between the bogies where it says Trix on your model, and was only IIRC on the early blue Hermes.
The Mk 3 was the Hornby Minitrix version of Hermes and Intrepid in the 1980s, with the motor that slid in from the side rather than from above, and with the buffer beams fixed.

The Mk 1 and Mk 2 models had transfers and the Mk 3 models were Tampo printed.
All blue ones actually had incorrect livery placement of arrows/numbers.

HTH
Bob

[ntpntpntp]

Here are two German V200s dating from 1970s and 1990s, showing the change in chassis.Exactly the same two chassis as those found under the Warships.

[BramptonBranch]

Which one was supposedly never made?
I have Hermes in blue. Intrepid in green, a green one with full yellow ends whose name escapes me as its gone for a resprsay a Maroon Zebra and Rapid which was bought second hand 1n 1977 really tatty maroon and didnt run well.
Since been repaired and repainted in maroon keeping its identity.

Im  a big fan of Minitrix Warships got  "a few" and another one on the way. (Gideon take note lol)

ps the 27 chassiss is good for the Shapeways EM1/class 76
.

Andy

[belstone]

It had the Minitrix history, including the overlap with Peco (the Mk 1 coaches were once called Wonderful Coaches, and the BP tanker was originally Minitrix too).

There is I suspect an interesting story there waiting to be told.  IIRC the Peco 15 foot wagons were originally developed by Trix, and have the same combination of chassis and wheelset plastics that made Trix OO gauge wagons famous for their free running.  The grain wagon was a perfect half-size reproduction of the model that finished off British Trix financially, and I don't know whether Peco or Trix came up with the other bodies (fish van, tube wagon etc etc) to fit on the grain wagon chassis.  I have seen photos of a very early Peco grain wagon with sprung Rapido couplers in big bulky pockets, so I would guess the "Elsie" coupler was a Peco idea.  Peco announced Mk1 coaches in 1967 or possibly earlier, so presumably some kind of deal was done whereby Peco acquired the Trix wagon range and the Mk1s went to Minitrix.  I wonder why?

Richard

[Bob G]

All the 15' chassis wagons originally had sprung couplings. When Peco brought out the 10' chassis that was around 1971 and were Elsie couplings from the start.
The 15' chassis was upgraded to Elsie much later, about 1980 IIRC, and they say Peco Mk 2 underneath.
The Trix BP TTA tanker of 1967 was the first wagon Peco sold and the tanker chassis is quite accurate for its time. That chassis was used for the grain wagon in 1969. I don't know if it was designed by Trix or Peco or in unison.
The others - tube, Hybar, plate, fish, pallet were all shrunk or stretched to fit the chassis and were made from 1968. There was then a NE or BR brake brought out in 1974.

HTH
Bob

[belstone]

All the 15' chassis wagons originally had sprung couplings. When Peco brought out the 10' chassis that was around 1971 and were Elsie couplings from the start.
The 15' chassis was upgraded to Elsie much later, about 1980 IIRC, and they say Peco Mk 2 underneath.
The Trix BP TTA tanker of 1967 was the first wagon Peco sold and the tanker chassis is quite accurate for its time. That chassis was used for the grain wagon in 1969. I don't know if it was designed by Trix or Peco or in unison.
The others - tube, Hybar, plate, fish, pallet were all shrunk or stretched to fit the chassis and were made from 1968. There was then a NE or BR brake brought out in 1974.

HTH
Bob

Thanks very much for that.  My memory is very imperfect, and I was sure the 15 foot wagons all had Elsies from an early stage. By the time I was buying them, early 1980s, they would all have been on the Mk2 chassis anyway. Somewhere I have a cutting from RM around 1967 announcing the new Peco wagon range.  There was an MGR hopper which took thirty years to get to market and a Lowmac which we are still waiting for.  The Lowmac would have needed a special chassis which would explain why it never happened. 

Richard

[Bob G]

Which one was supposedly never made?

This is what I owned at one time and it matches with the pamphlet I have somewhere.
Mass produced versions were as follows: All on Mk 1 chassis except where indicated:
D805 Benbow - Green
D815 Druid - Blue
D816 Eclipse - Green, Maroon and Blue
D823 Hermes - Blue (Mk 2 and Mk 3 chassis)
D825 Intrepid - Green (Mk 3 Chassis)
D866 Zebra - Green, Maroon and Blue

Ones that were not produced except accidentally
D815 Druid - Green (I think I had the only one known as of 2012. It was mint, unused. One of those found in an old shop sort of thing)
D838 Rapid - Maroon (very rare but a few were made. If you resprayed yours it will have gone down in collector value )

Some maroon ones appear to have suffered fracturing around the screw securing point so there are not as many going the rounds as blue or green ones. Must have been a paint/plastic reaction of some sort. You sometimes see them on EBay with split bodies around the roof area.

HTH
Bob

[BramptonBranch]

I was aware Rapid is rare but it was in a poor state when I bought it in 1977 Ive no plans yet to sell any of them.In fact I would like the whole fleet of 71!
Over the top  I know but who cares! 

Andy

[Jfheath]

Hi @Bob G

That is a very kind offer.   I'd be very interested in seeing stuff like that please.  I've been working largely from old catalogues, dates on technical data sheets, and dimming personal memories.  And one or two internet sources that I found.  Most things tie up, but one or two do not - including a couple of dates from Pat Hammond's Rovex Vol 2 and Ramsays Model Trains v9.  I don't for a second think that he is wrong - there must be a reason which I don't yet understand.

I have never seen the 3rd Generation Warship - and didn't know that the motor was side loaded - I suppose it fits in like the class 47 with those plastic axle support clips.  I'll dig out the tech sheets for the german counterpart.

[ntpntpntp]

I have never seen the 3rd Generation Warship - and didn't know that the motor was side loaded - I suppose it fits in like the class 47 with those plastic axle support clips. 

Seriously? They're quite common, certainly in the post-Hornby Minitrix sets.  There's usually one or two on ebay at any given time. They're immediately recognisable with fixed buffers and different bogies sideframes, no yellow ends.

Yes the chassis design and motor mount etc. is similar to the 47

Here's one, with its German cousin.



This one came as part of a full Minitrix passenger set with two blood/custard coaches, track oval with passing loop, main power pack etc. I picked up mint about 3 years ago

[Jfheath]

Seriously? They're quite common, certainly in the post-Hornby Minitrix sets. 

Sorry - when I say 'seen' - I mean I have never had my hands on one to take to bits and investigate - like I have with every other Minitrix model.  I have a photo of Intrepid that a friend sent to me on my website, and I know enough to be able to spot the difference between the 3 generations.  I have 2 very battered old versions - I couldn't even tell the original colour when I was given them.  I took them both apart, stripped the paint to the (surprising) chocolate coloured plastic, resprayed them and put them together.  One is a 1st generation, one is a 2nd.  They run beautifully. Curiously, they seem to have a positive chassis when travelling forward. 

But I've never bothered to buy one - I seem to be one of the few people that doesn't like the look of them !

As a consequence, I've never seen under the cab to note how the post 1979 Intrepid model was put together, but from the tech sheet for 12943, the arrangement looks to be identical to that of the class 47 - which is a much nicer solution that that used for the Class 27 and the earlier warships.

ps

I'm sorry -  I didn't respond to your earlier comment (yesterday).  You said "I would have thought British Trix's involvement with the 27 and 42 would have been just the bodyshell."
I think that you are correct.  I did  a bit more research after I had read that post by @Belstone - that very early example of the 1967 Class 27 produced by British Minitrix.  I hadn't realised that British Minitrix had been given permission by German Trix to develop some UK outline models.  I should have read my Ramsay's a bit more carefully.

pps

Minitrix Tech Sheets.  Most of these are still available on the Official Trix Website, but it can take a lot of persistence to get to the one that you want.  This link will help: 

https://www.trix.de/de/service/anleitungen-ersatzteile/ersatzteillisten/

Click the 1000 button and wait for the page to refresh.  Select the very long URL at the top and copy it and save it for future use - that will save having to click the 1000 button.  Then you can rapidly scroll down the full list of locos for number that you want.

When you find the loco (eg 12943) select 'Erstazteilliste' and a pdf file pops up in a new window.  The pdf can be saved from this window.

[ntpntpntp]

Yes a good set of service sheets and parts lists on Trix as you would hope. 

I also use other sites to find service sheets, especially those which have sheets for other brands as well.  "Waschzettel" (colloquially = "blurb"?) seems to be a good alternative search term to "Erzatsteilliste"

For example:
http://www.9-mm.ch/katalog/9-mm_katalog_start_002.htm

[AndyRA]

Despite their age I have kept all of my Warships dating from the 1970s, and given a few cosmetic tweeks they still have a place on my layout today.