LNER Steam Locomotives

[Alan G]

I am building a layout based on a fictitious LNER location set sometime during the 1960s, using an Ian Allan Combined Volume for 1965/6 from my train spotting days as a reference. Diesel locomotives are readily available  Why are there very few (N Gauge) models of LNER locos? Looking at the catalogues GWR, SR, LMS and BR locos abound but very few LNER. There are the A1 - 4 always available, a B1, V2 and a J72 that had a limited run. Why can't manufacturers produce models of K1, Q6, J94 etc?
A. Gray
NGS28681

Thankyou to all those who read and replied to my post. I did not think it would generate so large a response.
I did my train spotting at one of the 'roads' in and out of Thornaby Shed, Darlington, Newcastle and when on holiday.

[Bealman]

G'day from Australia, Alan, and welcome to the NGF! 

Regarding your query, I'm not sure I understand... you are after LNER locos for the 60s?

I assume you mean BR eastern region.

Getting any new models from major manufacturers at the moment is a rare event, especially kettles.

Union Mills do provide models which may suit your needs.

[Newportnobby]

Hello Alan, and welcome to the forum
It's true you have not been particularly well served by the main manufacturers. There was going to be a new J94 but that fell by the wayside. Union Mills are a decent source of locos you could maybe use. The detail is not as good as others but they run extremely well and can haul prodigious amounts.
The only other alternative is to either create your own or maybe commission a loco.
Have a look at the 'On my workbench' threads by Dr Al and StevieDC to see some superb examples of, especially, LNER steam locos.

[Dorsetmike]

I would strongly disagree with you as regards SR steam availability, there are no SR 4-6-0s RTR and only 2 4-6-0 kits, only 2 4-4-0s, 4 0-6-0s 1 2-6-0 and a couple of tanks. Have you checked Union Mills, they have D11, D16/3, B12 also there is a J11 due soon, you should also be able to find a few other classes on Ebay that are currently out of production.

[Bealman]

Q1? M7? Merchant Navy? The list goes on.... 

[RailGooner]

Hi Alan and welcome aboard!

My interest is in modern post '97 UK railways, so I can't contribute to your research. But you've joined the Carlsberg of forums so I'm sure you'll receive the help you seek.

[martyn]

Hi  Alan

Amen to your last sentence.

However, as has been pointed out, Union Mills can assist: J38, D16/3 Claud, B12/3, D11, etc. And others are available as (mainly dated) white metal kits, eg Langley B2 (Thompson) N2 and N7, whilst Stevie dc has some 3D printed kits of very high quality.  See also the efforts of Dr Al and Stevie dc on the Forum.

Farish did the J94, but again this is now dated by modern standards.

You may be lucky enough to find kits for an A5, and J52, but these are now long out of production, and cary some silly prices at times.

HTH.

Martyn

[Roy L S]

I would strongly disagree with you as regards SR steam availability, there are no SR 4-6-0s RTR and only 2 4-6-0 kits, only 2 4-4-0s, 4 0-6-0s 1 2-6-0 and a couple of tanks. Have you checked Union Mills, they have D11, D16/3, B12 also there is a J11 due soon, you should also be able to find a few other classes on Ebay that are currently out of production.

Re: SR, don't forget M7, Terrier,

I would strongly disagree with you as regards SR steam availability, there are no SR 4-6-0s RTR and only 2 4-6-0 kits, only 2 4-4-0s, 4 0-6-0s 1 2-6-0 and a couple of tanks. Have you checked Union Mills, they have D11, D16/3, B12 also there is a J11 due soon, you should also be able to find a few other classes on Ebay that are currently out of production.

There is not a single LNER tank loco of any description currently available RTR in N, no other company (or BR derivative if you model BR) is so poorly served.

I have said for a long time that it should be an obvious target for the RTR manufacturer to plug, even something simple but large enough to present few technical challenges like the J50 or N2, sadly with the canning of the Farish J72 and demise of the DJM J94 (which realistically was unlikely to ever have happened) it now seems that the position will remain unchanged.

Thus I am grateful to have my one and only LNER tank loco, an Atso-CAD V3 2-6-2T created for me by Steve himself, I am particularly lucky as Steve doesn't do commissions, this was a special one-off. The weathering is absolutely spot on!



Roy

 

[port perran]

Welcome aboard Alan G.
Just to add that Union Mills, who do as martyn pointed out produced some ER locos are difficult to locate if you are new to modelling.
They are based in the Isle of Man but don't advertise overly (except in a few magazines including the NGS) and don't have a website.
They are rugged, hugely reliable powerful locos but lack the detail of eg Dapol and GF. If you are happy with that then I fully recommend them.
Martin

[Roy L S]

Don't forget there is also the Farish J39 which is a really nice model and a useful all rounder.

Roy

[Rabbitaway]

I am not an Eastern region specialist, but in the time period you are modeling a significant number of the BR standard class locos would have been operating and possibly transfers from other regions such as the Black Five

If this is the case it widens your options

[red_death]

I had a look at various LNER tank locos, but the difficulties I had were which one (I narrowed it down to 4); lack of standardisation - even in some of the larger classes there appeared to be a lot of variation and rebuilds; and perhaps most importantly (from our perspective!) is my lack of knowledge of the real thing - I can learn, but I'm never going to be as knowledgeable as some on here and that takes time which is a pretty precious commodity when doing things in your spare time!

All of that makes it a tricky prospect for Revolution as ultimately it boils down to will it sell if we get the right choice etc. If we can't make it sell then is it more likely that one of the larger manufacturers are going to be able to produce something - on the one hand they have much greater reach but they also need to typically sell more models.

Cheers Mike

[martyn]

Mike;

'I had a look at various LNER tank locos, but the difficulties I had were which one (I narrowed it down to 4); lack of standardisation - even in some of the larger classes there appeared to be a lot of variation and rebuilds;'

As an LNER/ER enthusiast, sadly I have to agree, and that's also the case for many LNER tender locos as well, and likewise, sadly, your reasoning for Revolution.

Alan G;

Which general area did you intend to model, please? Perhaps we can come up with other ideas.

Union Mills have announced a re-release of the J11, and have done D20s in the past.

Martyn

[Roy L S]

I had a look at various LNER tank locos, but the difficulties I had were which one (I narrowed it down to 4); lack of standardisation - even in some of the larger classes there appeared to be a lot of variation and rebuilds; and perhaps most importantly (from our perspective!) is my lack of knowledge of the real thing - I can learn, but I'm never going to be as knowledgeable as some on here and that takes time which is a pretty precious commodity when doing things in your spare time!

All of that makes it a tricky prospect for Revolution as ultimately it boils down to will it sell if we get the right choice etc. If we can't make it sell then is it more likely that one of the larger manufacturers are going to be able to produce something - on the one hand they have much greater reach but they also need to typically sell more models.

Cheers Mike

Hi Mike

Sonic's research into Sonic's 56xx illustrates that even with Swindon's philosophy of standardisation GW locos still have variations!

The LNER was never as wealthy as it's neighbours but still did have some aspirations towards standardisation even if it never got quite as far, hence a continued reliance to some extent on pre-Grouping designs.

Some loco classes were more regionally segregated than others, likely a throwback to the pre-Grouping allocations.

Locos that must be in for a "shout" must be: -

The J50 0-6-0T, which was adopted as a "standard" LNER design for shunting and trip working. More were planned to be built but in the end post-war 75 J94s were purchased instead. J50s survived in traffic until 1963, none were preserved.

That leads nicely to the Hunslet 18 inch Austerity 0-6-0ST which the LNER classified post-war purchases of as the J94, so in reality not an LNER design and only really an LNER loco for a few years. This loco, however, even allowing for design variances (High Bunker, different steps etc) seems an absolute "no brainer" given how many ended up in industrial use, military use and preservation, sporting who knows how many bright liveries. In BR days they survived well into the 60s, being particularly famous on the Cromford and High Peak line. Les of this parish expressed concern about internal space next to the aborted Farish J72, but I would argue that the larger saddle-tank area provides much more room for coreless motor, weight and DCC socket than in a side-tank loco, and certainly the DJM CADs that were shown substantiated the technical feasibility.

The N2, an 0-6-2 Tank is another with long life, but I believe there were variances, earlier ones having condensing apparatus, Right Hand drive and stubbier chimneys. These locos in due course could be found anywhere from London to East Anglia and even Scotland (one was shedded at Hawick!). One is preserved and it has been a popular model in 00 days since the time of pre-war Hornby Dublo! They survived well into BR days (early 60s?) with one preserved.

J72 0-6-0 - discounted as too technically challenging by Bachmann after years of having it on their list and "squashing" the Dapol one in the process. I question the technical challenges if Dapol can do a Terrier. I'll leave it there...

J69 - beautiful little locos and Graham Farish's second N gauge loco introduced in 1971 - I have three of four of these including a mint BR Black one which runs perfectly and a not so mint BR black one which in spite of neglect over it's life still runs too (unusual as most seen fo sale have split gears!). I think an up to date one of these really would be something..

Then the iconic V1/3 2-6-2T passenger tank locos and L1/L3 2-6-4 passenger Tanks. Survived into the 1960s, but neither have examples preserved.

Anyway, there are some ideas. As with even modern diesels, detail differences in terms of class-members and over time sub-classes. I totally understand the bewildering variances in some cases, but I wouldn't mind betting that some of the research has already been done by those on this Group far more knowledgeable than me, but even without, Colin A's reputation for accurate models must surely not rule out an LNER tank loco prototype as a potential Sonic model at some point?

Regards

Roy

[Papyrus]

Hello, Alan, and welcome from a fellow East Anglian.

It's probably a truism that, whatever and wherever you choose to model, there is never enough of the stock you want! Rabbitaway makes a valid point that a lot of BR standard types were allocated to the Eastern region and these are pretty well represented by current models. Kits for a number of LNER prototypes are available from Langley and BH Enterprises among others. If you're prepared to put in a bit of work you can build up quite a varied roster of Eastern steam.

Happy modelling!

Chris