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Author Topic: How important is loco haulage to you?  (Read 1703 times)

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Online Dr Al

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Re: How important is loco haulage to you?
« Reply #30 on: August 14, 2019, 12:10:36 PM »
I'm kind of resigned to the fact Dapol lights last maybe a couple hours actual running before they die, having experienced that so often it's no longer a surprise when it happens.[/li][/list]

What control are you running, NeMo?

These are often easily fixed - it's the dual diode package that most often fails - the BAT54C diode array. I've repaired a stack load for folks.

What I don't understand, and still want to find out is what actually causes the failure as I've never actually seen one expire 'live'.

Cheers,
Alan
Quote from: Roy L S
If Dr Al is online he may be able to provide a more comprehensive answer.

“We have also arranged things so that almost no one understands science and technology. This is a prescription for disaster. We might get away with it for a while, but sooner or later this combustible mixture of ignorance and power is going to blow up in our faces.” – Dr. Carl Sagan

Online Dr Al

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Re: How important is loco haulage to you?
« Reply #31 on: August 14, 2019, 12:13:28 PM »
The worst examples for haulage that I've experienced (and I do own probably a couple of  old Minitrix 2-6-0 tender locos

A friend has one of those - it's pulling power is appalling, as in it can't even pull itself very well. The traction tyres are present, but do look a tad "polished". We had to get a very strong magnifying glass out to ascertain that they were there.

These locos always generate the same response of poor haulage. The reason, in my experience of re-furbing around 30+ is that not one had a good set of tyres on them. You must replace them, as the newest are 25 years old and some are close to 45. If they are transparent coloured then they'll definitely be hardened and functionally useless.

Changing the tyres, cleaning, lubricating (sparingly!!!) and ensuring all gear meshing and relative wheel alignment is sorted will give a loco capable of pulling 8 free rolling coaches no problem.

HTH,
Alan
Quote from: Roy L S
If Dr Al is online he may be able to provide a more comprehensive answer.

“We have also arranged things so that almost no one understands science and technology. This is a prescription for disaster. We might get away with it for a while, but sooner or later this combustible mixture of ignorance and power is going to blow up in our faces.” – Dr. Carl Sagan

Online Dr Al

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Re: How important is loco haulage to you?
« Reply #32 on: August 14, 2019, 12:21:49 PM »
Dapol 9F is hopeless for a heavy freight loco...
The problem is that the driving wheels are under the lightest part of the model. I've got two 9Fs, the weathered ones, and while they look gorgeous, they aren't especially strong (though mine will put a dozen or so wagons without problems) but they do sound very noisy by modern standards.

They shouldn't be too noisy.

I've seen a couple where the loco pickups have had a dramatic effect on the pulling power - one had the pickups on the rear two wheels flat against the chassis on one side. I didn't anticipate this changing the haulage, but I reset it for better pickup and was surprised to find the haulage went up significantly - perhaps not having the wheels pushed hard to one size helped the total adhesion.

Another issue, is that some of the later production seem to suffer bowed chassis such that the central (all plastic) wheelset acts like a see-saw fulcrum that the loco see-saws on. This tends to give wobbly running too. With the chassis being plastic, it's possible to lightly file out the slot to correct this, but it's not the easiest of adjustments.

Maybe some of these can help folks improve their models...

....or maybe a good one to suggest to Hattons for their next N model (!!!). A much improved 9F may well be popular?

Cheers,
Alan
Quote from: Roy L S
If Dr Al is online he may be able to provide a more comprehensive answer.

“We have also arranged things so that almost no one understands science and technology. This is a prescription for disaster. We might get away with it for a while, but sooner or later this combustible mixture of ignorance and power is going to blow up in our faces.” – Dr. Carl Sagan

Online chrism

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Re: How important is loco haulage to you?
« Reply #33 on: August 14, 2019, 12:24:15 PM »
The worst examples for haulage that I've experienced (and I do own probably a couple of  old Minitrix 2-6-0 tender locos

A friend has one of those - it's pulling power is appalling, as in it can't even pull itself very well. The traction tyres are present, but do look a tad "polished". We had to get a very strong magnifying glass out to ascertain that they were there.

These locos always generate the same response of poor haulage. The reason, in my experience of re-furbing around 30+ is that not one had a good set of tyres on them. You must replace them, as the newest are 25 years old and some are close to 45. If they are transparent coloured then they'll definitely be hardened and functionally useless.

Changing the tyres, cleaning, lubricating (sparingly!!!) and ensuring all gear meshing and relative wheel alignment is sorted will give a loco capable of pulling 8 free rolling coaches no problem.


Cheers - I'll tell him that, if he wants it to work properly, he's got to drop the motion  :D


Online Dr Al

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Re: How important is loco haulage to you?
« Reply #34 on: August 14, 2019, 12:24:41 PM »
I've recently found that the gears on the Dapol HST may not be up to hauling a full length train up gradients . They seem to wear down very quickly. Has anyone else has this problem?

Never seen it on full length train, but don't run mine on gradients.

I'd check if the wiper pickups on the underside of the chassis blocks are too tense and are then lifting the loco fractionally off the bogies allowing poorer meshing - I'd suspect this could be contributor, and easing them off so the loco definitely sits fully down on the bogies.

Cheers,
Alan
Quote from: Roy L S
If Dr Al is online he may be able to provide a more comprehensive answer.

“We have also arranged things so that almost no one understands science and technology. This is a prescription for disaster. We might get away with it for a while, but sooner or later this combustible mixture of ignorance and power is going to blow up in our faces.” – Dr. Carl Sagan

Online Dr Al

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Re: How important is loco haulage to you?
« Reply #35 on: August 14, 2019, 12:25:29 PM »
Cheers - I'll tell him that, if he wants it to work properly, he's got to drop the motion  :D

You shouldn't need to remove anything more than the front crank pins.

I've done loads, so if he needs help, let me know.

Cheers,
Alan
Quote from: Roy L S
If Dr Al is online he may be able to provide a more comprehensive answer.

“We have also arranged things so that almost no one understands science and technology. This is a prescription for disaster. We might get away with it for a while, but sooner or later this combustible mixture of ignorance and power is going to blow up in our faces.” – Dr. Carl Sagan

Online chrism

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Re: How important is loco haulage to you?
« Reply #36 on: August 14, 2019, 12:27:53 PM »
Cheers - I'll tell him that, if he wants it to work properly, he's got to drop the motion  :D

You shouldn't need to remove anything more than the front crank pins.

I've done loads, so if he needs help, let me know.


Thanks, I'll tell him.
To preempt his anticipated question - are they screwed in, pressed in or what? If screwed in, is one side a LH thread?



Online dannyboy

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Re: How important is loco haulage to you?
« Reply #37 on: August 14, 2019, 12:28:58 PM »



I am with George on this. I appreciate that there are people out there who have to have everything spot on and prototypical, but for me, if a loco' can pull 2 or 3 carriages, or a few wagons, that will do.

There's an enormous gulf between those two things. IRL a freight train may have 40 wagons. I want mine to manage 15-20. That's a good length for me. Having large locos that can only haul 2 wagons would be absolutely daft! Can you imagine all the large exhibition layouts with locos hauling 2 wagons!?

I appreciate what you are saying, but I did say 2 or 3 carriages or a few wagons. Layouts at exhibitions tend to be more prototypical, pulling a dozen or so carriages, or 20 or more wagons and they do look quite impressive. I never said owt about a large loco' pulling 2 wagons.  :beers:
David.
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Online crewearpley40

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Re: How important is loco haulage to you?
« Reply #38 on: August 14, 2019, 12:32:31 PM »
thanks chrism for answering my point

Online njee20

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Re: How important is loco haulage to you?
« Reply #39 on: August 14, 2019, 12:35:59 PM »
I am with George on this. I appreciate that there are people out there who have to have everything spot on and prototypical, but for me, if a loco' can pull 2 or 3 carriages, or a few wagons, that will do.

There's an enormous gulf between those two things. IRL a freight train may have 40 wagons. I want mine to manage 15-20. That's a good length for me. Having large locos that can only haul 2 wagons would be absolutely daft! Can you imagine all the large exhibition layouts with locos hauling 2 wagons!?

I appreciate what you are saying, but I did say 2 or 3 carriages or a few wagons. Layouts at exhibitions tend to be more prototypical, pulling a dozen or so carriages, or 20 or more wagons and they do look quite impressive. I never said owt about a large loco' pulling 2 wagons.  :beers:

Alright, replace the last word of my post with "carriages" then ;)

I understand that if you've got a small layout then that will suffice (indeed on any size layout as long as your locos haul what you want you'll be happy; you don't really need 'haulage in reserve'), but like I say, there's a massive difference between wanting everything to be "spot on and prototypical", with associated derogation and having the bear minimum requirements.

Online dannyboy

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Re: How important is loco haulage to you?
« Reply #40 on: August 14, 2019, 12:40:14 PM »
No "derogation" meant or intended - if anyone has taken my comments that way, I apologise. I was only trying to get my point across that some people want 'true to life' running, whilst others, like myself, just like to see trains, (in any form) run round the layout.  :beers:
David.
I used to be indecisive - now I'm not - I don't think.
If a friend seems distant, catch up with him.

Online Dr Al

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Re: How important is loco haulage to you?
« Reply #41 on: August 14, 2019, 12:59:19 PM »
To preempt his anticipated question - are they screwed in, pressed in or what? If screwed in, is one side a LH thread?

They are push in so should just lever out. The thing you don't want to damage is the plastic crosshead as these are vulnerable, and not easy to replace if damaged.

Cheers,
Alan
Quote from: Roy L S
If Dr Al is online he may be able to provide a more comprehensive answer.

“We have also arranged things so that almost no one understands science and technology. This is a prescription for disaster. We might get away with it for a while, but sooner or later this combustible mixture of ignorance and power is going to blow up in our faces.” – Dr. Carl Sagan

Online njee20

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Re: How important is loco haulage to you?
« Reply #42 on: August 14, 2019, 01:03:38 PM »
No "derogation" meant or intended - if anyone has taken my comments that way, I apologise. I was only trying to get my point across that some people want 'true to life' running, whilst others, like myself, just like to see trains, (in any form) run round the layout.  :beers:

It was more the post that preceded yours (with which you agreed), no need to apologise, ultimately it's all just different facets of the hobby we enjoy.

Back OT units that can barely haul themselves are an annoyance; Farish 350 and 220 I'm looking at you!

Offline jpendle

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Re: How important is loco haulage to you?
« Reply #43 on: August 14, 2019, 01:59:40 PM »
I think haulage matters, but the only time I can act on that is when buying CL66 loco's. Farish are better than Dapol.

I also think that better haulage must be a win win for the modeller and the retailers and manufacturers.

If the Hatton's Garratt has the haulage of the prototype then they'll get to potentially sell 100 coal wagons with each one  :D

The Revs CL92 had better pull 16 Mk5's or there may be embarrassment  :D

As I have a large layout the more my loco's can pull the more wagons I buy.

Regards,

John P
Check out my layout thread.

Contemporary NW (Wigan Wallgate and North Western)

https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=39501.msg476247#msg476247

Online chrism

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Re: How important is loco haulage to you?
« Reply #44 on: August 14, 2019, 02:05:06 PM »
To preempt his anticipated question - are they screwed in, pressed in or what? If screwed in, is one side a LH thread?

They are push in so should just lever out. The thing you don't want to damage is the plastic crosshead as these are vulnerable, and not easy to replace if damaged.


Thanks, Alan. I'll tell him - and warn him about the crossheads.

 

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