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Author Topic: Any telephone engineers here?  (Read 274 times)

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Offline TrevL

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Any telephone engineers here?
« on: April 24, 2019, 02:30:23 PM »
Having just fitted new UPVC skirting boards, I thought I'd run a new telephone extension cable to for the computer, hiding the cable inside the skirting. I have two issues.  The old extension (which I'm using this minute) disappears into the master socket, the last visit of a bt engineer did that cos he said one less plug in the system gives better connectivity, fair enough.
However at the end of that extension, there are only two wires (red & green) connecteted to the front plate. The new socket has four wires ( red, green, black, & gold.) which are connected as per the diagram.  This socket, when plugged in at to master socket does not work.  Are these two extra wires (black & gold ) the cause of my router's inability  to connect to 'tinternet?
« Last Edit: April 24, 2019, 02:33:00 PM by TrevL, Reason: typo »
Cheers, Trev.


Time flys like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana!

Online jpendle

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Re: Any telephone engineers here?
« Reply #1 on: April 24, 2019, 02:48:52 PM »
OK so first I'm confused.

First are you using DSL for your internet service? It sounds like you are cos that's why there are just 2 wires on your old extension cable.

So then you are running the cable to your Router, NOT to the computer.

Next you mention a diagram, but we can't see it, that describes the 4 wire cable you have acquired. Standard off the shelf telephone wiring and accessories come with 4 wires, 2 sets of twisted pairs. We'll need to see the diagram to figure out why it's not working.

Regards,

John P

Offline TrevL

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Re: Any telephone engineers here?
« Reply #2 on: April 24, 2019, 03:05:03 PM »
Your wish is my command,  What's DSL?




In the original socket, only the the green (3) and red (4) are connected.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2019, 03:08:34 PM by TrevL »
Cheers, Trev.


Time flys like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana!

Online stevewalker

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Re: Any telephone engineers here?
« Reply #3 on: April 24, 2019, 04:46:43 PM »
Can you post photos of your master, old extension and new extension sockets?

There are a variety of ways they could be connected and some have filtering in the master socket, while others require filtering at the extension sockets.

All though, normally use terminals 2 & 5 not 3 & 4. Normally 4 is unused (and may or may not have an unused core connected), while 3 is only required for older phones that require a ring signal (newer ones generate their own ring signal from pins 2 & 5 or you can do it for old phones with a plug in filter).

You should either have unfiltered signals everywhere and plug in filters wherever you use a phone; filtered extension faceplates; or more usually now, a filtered master faceplate, with separate distribution for phone and broadband extensions (neither of which require their own filters).

SteveW

Offline MJKERR

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Re: Any telephone engineers here?
« Reply #4 on: April 24, 2019, 05:54:30 PM »
Who is the ISP?
Do they not provide a wireless router?
If so, why not just install a wireless receiver?
This was what I had on my previous PC, when I moved the router between rooms
I am now on my fourth router, supplied by Virgin Media at no cost

Online ntpntpntp

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Re: Any telephone engineers here?
« Reply #5 on: April 24, 2019, 06:00:37 PM »
I stopped having my router on an extension over 15 years ago, I found it much better to have the router plugged in to the master socket with built in filter,  then use WiFi or homeplugs (ethernet-over-mains) to connect our various devices.
Nick.   2016 celebrating the 20th anniversary of "Königshafen" exhibition layout!

Offline TrevL

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Re: Any telephone engineers here?
« Reply #6 on: April 24, 2019, 06:03:52 PM »
This is the master socket. The black lead is the 'phone, plugged into the new extension. The old extension is hard wired into the back of the master socket at the top right.


Cheers, Trev.


Time flys like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana!

Offline TrevL

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Re: Any telephone engineers here?
« Reply #7 on: April 24, 2019, 06:06:21 PM »
This is the old extension socket, which works flawlessly, this is how I'm posting on here.


Cheers, Trev.


Time flys like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana!

Offline TrevL

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Re: Any telephone engineers here?
« Reply #8 on: April 24, 2019, 06:10:19 PM »
This is the new socket, wired exactly as the previous daigram directs. This does not work at all with the router, and I don't have another phone to try it with.
 

Cheers, Trev.


Time flys like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana!

Offline TrevL

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Re: Any telephone engineers here?
« Reply #9 on: April 24, 2019, 06:20:16 PM »
I believe (according to YouTube????) ,  that the phone socket in these new master sockets, does not transmit broadband,  and that I must plug the router into the dedicated socket on the left of the master.  This is probably why the new socket doesn't work.   Can anyone confirm whether this is fact or fiction please?

And sorry, that master socket area looks a bit grubby, the camera never lies :'(
« Last Edit: April 24, 2019, 06:23:23 PM by TrevL »
Cheers, Trev.


Time flys like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana!

Online jpendle

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Re: Any telephone engineers here?
« Reply #10 on: April 24, 2019, 06:31:06 PM »
Zooming in on the master socket it clearly shows that you need to connect the Router to the connector on the left hand side, but I'm not sure what cable you would need. I would hazard a guess that you would need an RJ45 phone cable to connect from there to the Router.

Regards,

John P

Offline nookfield

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Re: Any telephone engineers here?
« Reply #11 on: April 24, 2019, 06:31:48 PM »
BT instructions for socket are here. It may help (or not)

https://www.run-it-direct.co.uk/MK4VDSLNTE5Cinstructions.pdf

Online ntpntpntp

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Re: Any telephone engineers here?
« Reply #12 on: April 24, 2019, 06:54:09 PM »
Yes, the master socket will have a built in filter. Your original extension is bypassing that, but anything you plug into the phone socket on the front of the master socket will be after the filter so your router isn't going to get a signal from that socket.

You need to plug the router into the provided broadband socket. Goes back to what I wrote earlier in that the router is best placed next to the master socket.  That's pretty much what you're expected to do these days.
Nick.   2016 celebrating the 20th anniversary of "Königshafen" exhibition layout!

Online stevewalker

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Re: Any telephone engineers here?
« Reply #13 on: April 24, 2019, 09:38:35 PM »
Right, we are getting somewhere. You have an NTE5C Mk4.

If you remove the front cover, you will find a blue connector on the section that remains on the wall. The bottom edge of the blue connector pivots upwards, allowing you to insert cores into it and as you push it down again, it forces the cores between the metal connections, which cut through the insulation and contact and grip the cores. That blue connector is for PHONE extensions only, NOT data ones. If you want to connect phone extensions to it, you need to put whichever pair you are using in 2 & 5, plus one of the other cores in 3 if you need the ringer wire - look in your extensions to see which cores are connected to 2, 5 & 3).

For the data extension, take a look at the back of the front cover that you removed from the master socket. There is a red connector. This works like the blue one, but you only need to connect a single pair. Use whichever pair is connected to terminals 2 & 5 on your data extension socket (yellow and black in your case), the other pair is not required.

You currently have the data connection plugged into the phone outlet (the filtering will prevent it working as a data connection), you need to cut the connector off the end of the extension lead and connect it to the red connector instead.

For more info and some pictures, take a look at: https://www.openreach.co.uk/orpg/home/helpandsupport/how-toguides/howtoguides/downloads/NTE5C_Instructions_CP.pdf

Ah, I see Nookfield has already posted a similar link.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2019, 09:44:35 PM by stevewalker »

Online stevewalker

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Re: Any telephone engineers here?
« Reply #14 on: April 24, 2019, 09:56:37 PM »
Zooming in on the master socket it clearly shows that you need to connect the Router to the connector on the left hand side, but I'm not sure what cable you would need. I would hazard a guess that you would need an RJ45 phone cable to connect from there to the Router.

Regards,

John P

The standard connector is an RJ11 I think, although many sockets actually have the extra width and pins to allow an RJ45 to be used instead. In this case, the extension can be terminated directly to the back of the faceplate though - as presumably the old extension was done.

 

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