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Author Topic: Commonwealth bogies  (Read 345 times)

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Offline Jim Martin

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Commonwealth bogies
« on: October 06, 2018, 06:05:56 PM »
Commonwealth bogies: are they available in N? Etched Pixels' catalogue shows them as "discontinued", which isn't very encouraging.

Any positive information eagerly awaited!

Jim
Believe me. These things always have a logical explanation usually

Offline martyn

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Re: Commonwealth bogies
« Reply #1 on: October 06, 2018, 06:23:44 PM »
Farish/Bachmann spares department at Barwell?

I think some of the later livery Mk1 have Commonwealth bogies.

HTH

Martyn

Offline koyli55002

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Re: Commonwealth bogies
« Reply #2 on: October 06, 2018, 07:06:33 PM »
The later Mark 1's from Bachmann / Farish (and also most of the Pullman coaches) have Commonwealth bogies so the spares department at Barwell MAY be able to assist.
I think the kit version from TPM is in the same league as the waste from a rocking horse......

Online crewearpley40

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Re: Commonwealth bogies
« Reply #3 on: October 06, 2018, 07:24:46 PM »
for the history purists .....


http://www.wsr.org.uk/bogies.htm]http://www.wsr.org.uk/bogies.html


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Railways_Mark_1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Railways_Mark_1

http://www.ultima-models.co.uk/catalogue/comp-bogies.html]http://www.ultima-models.co.uk/catalogue/comp-bogies.html - sadly showing discontinued

may be worth having alook round exhibitions,eileens ?, farish, petersspares ?
« Last Edit: October 06, 2018, 07:38:39 PM by crewearpley40 »

Offline Newportnobby

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Re: Commonwealth bogies
« Reply #4 on: October 06, 2018, 09:13:25 PM »
Thanks for that, Chris. I've often wondered what the difference between the B1 and the Commonwealth bogies is and that first link shows it precisely.

Online crewearpley40

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Re: Commonwealth bogies
« Reply #5 on: October 07, 2018, 01:39:10 AM »
hope this helps others,im not a wsr member, all i remember seeing these bogies on mk1s in my br days and took me a while to work the difference !!!!!!!!!! but clear evidence and a well worded article clearly showing the differences

Offline Ben A

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Re: Commonwealth bogies
« Reply #6 on: October 07, 2018, 10:29:55 AM »

Hi there,

If you are planning to use Farish spares, note that the Mk1 Pullman Commonwealth bogies have the couplers mounted on the bogie, whereas the Commonwealth bogies on the "main range" Mk1 coaches have no coupler as on those models it's body-mounted.

I think they are two completely different toolings of the same part.

Cheers

Ben A.



Online Yet_Another

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Re: Commonwealth bogies
« Reply #7 on: October 07, 2018, 11:52:49 AM »
Given the B1/B4 'standard' naming convention, why are these called 'Commonwealth'?
Tony

'...things are not done by those who sit down to count the cost of every thought and act.' - Sir Daniel Gooch of IKB

Online crewearpley40

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Re: Commonwealth bogies
« Reply #8 on: October 07, 2018, 12:05:03 PM »
to aid knowledge,

The Commonwealth bogie was manufactured by the English Steel Corporation under licence from the Commonwealth Steel Company in Illinois, United States and they were fitted with SKF or Timken bearings, introduced in the late 1950s for all BR Mark 1 vehicles. It was a heavy, cast-steel design weighing about 6.5 long tons with sealed roller bearings on the axle ends, avoiding the need to maintain axle box oil levels.

this is not to be confused and distinguished from the B4 bogie was introduced in 1963. which was a fabricated steel design versus cast iron and was lighter than the Commonwealth, weighing in at 5.08 long tons giving a speed rating of 100 mph (160 km/h).

Axle to spring connection was again fitted with roller bearings. However, now two coil springs rather than one were fitted per wheel.were provided for

Only a very small number of Mark 1 stock was fitted with the B4 bogie from new, it being used on the Mark 1 only to replace worn BR1 bogies.

The British Rail Mark 2 coach, however, carried the B4 bogies from new. A heavier-duty version, the B5, was standard on Southern Region Mk1-based EMUs from the 1960s onwards. Some Mark 1 catering cars had mixed bogies—a B5 under the kitchen end, and a B4 under the seating end. Some of the B4-fitted Mark 2s, as well as many B4-fitted Mark 1 BGs were allowed to run at 110 miles per hour (180 km/h) with extra maintenance, particularly of the wheel profile, and more frequent inspection.

The leaf springs were replaced by coil springs (one per wheel) running vertically rather than horizontally. The advanced design gave a better ride quality than the BR1, being rated for 100 mph (160 km/h).

The side frame of the bogie was usually of bar construction, with simple horn guides attached, allowing the axle boxes vertical movements between them. The axle boxes had a cast-steel equaliser beam or bar resting on them. The bar had two steel coil springs placed on it and the bogie frame rested on the springs. The effect was to allow the bar to act as a compensating lever between the two axles and to use both springs to soften shocks from either axle. The bogie had a conventional bolster suspension with swing links carrying a spring plank.

the BT10 bogies were for mk3 1970s stock


to answer ben's point check :

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:British_Rail_Mk1_coach_number_99352_Commonwealth_bogie.jpg good pic there

« Last Edit: October 07, 2018, 12:26:01 PM by crewearpley40 »

Offline Izzy

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Re: Commonwealth bogies
« Reply #9 on: October 07, 2018, 03:13:57 PM »

I think it's worth noting that the commonwealth bogies had the then 'standard' coach wheel size of 3'7" as other types i.e. BR 1 (so 7mm for N), while the B4's were the first to use the now common smaller size of 3' (6mm for N).

Of course for many years most N coaches have been fitted with undersized 6mm wheels due to clearance issues ( leading to them looking as if they were on tippy-toes!), and it's only with the later Bachmann Blue Riband Stanier/Mk 1's that the correct sizes have been used, thus needing the revised underframes (with clearance for the wheels) and separate couplings.

So beware CW or Mk1's bogies with 6mm - I think the early Pullman commenwealths are these type - as they are wrong, but might be needed if the coach they are to be used with hasn't the clearance for 7mm's.

Izzy

 

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