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Author Topic: N scale  (Read 3955 times)

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Online daffy

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Re: N scale
« Reply #45 on: February 21, 2017, 11:23:22 AM »
For me it's simple:
I take 'scale' in this context to mean what many dictionaries define it as - the relation between the real size of something and its size on a map, model, or diagram. Hence we have 1:148, 1/150, and 1/160 for the scale of the models that we are using and/or modelling.

'Gauge' is a noun in this context that denotes the distance between the track rails. It is a fixed measure, not a variable, as 'scale' can be as it describes a ratio.

The meaning of 'N' is less clear to me: nine or neun for the 9mm track width; Nuremberg (home of the Arnold company, often credited with the modern commercial origin of the hobby); or any number of the alternative interpretations that abound ('nerd' was one unkind alternative I came across :D)

So for we 'N' hobbyists/modellers/enthusiasts who choose to create or operate in various scales, for me there is only one term that encompasses us all, and it is the one that denotes the rails we all run our variously scaled trains upon: N Gauge.

That's how I consider it anyway, and if others have differing views then that's fine.

Not that it really matters. :D
Mike

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Offline RailGooner

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Re: N scale
« Reply #46 on: February 21, 2017, 12:31:31 PM »
...'N Scale' (universally interpreted to mean 1:160) when talking about 'N Gauge' (universally interpreted to mean 1:148)?[/i]".


Not sure I'd agree with "universally interpreted" for either of those two terms. ...


I don't disagree with any of your post @ntpntpntp , but I had to phrase a question that asked what I wanted to ask without suggesting the answer - i.e. if I'd used the term 'British N Scale' in my question.  >:D
“We are indebted to those soldiers who served with courage and distinction to bring peace to Northern Ireland,” UK Defence Secretary Gavin Williamson said. “The welfare of our former service personnel is of the utmost importance.”

Per Ardua ad Astra | Mens Agitat Molem | Victoria Concordia Crescit | Utrinque Paratus | Caveat lector

Offline Newportnobby

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Re: N scale
« Reply #47 on: February 21, 2017, 12:39:36 PM »
Surely it's obvious.
Scales are what you find in a whaleweigh station and gauges are what you look at when weighing the aforesaid whales. Q.E.D. :)

Offline RailGooner

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Re: N scale
« Reply #48 on: February 21, 2017, 12:49:23 PM »
Surely it's obvious.
Scales are what you find in a whaleweigh station and gauges are what you look at when weighing the aforesaid whales. Q.E.D. :)


Did you subliminally convince @Elvinley in to starting this thread, just so you drop that on us?  :veryangry:

Well done.  :smiley-laughing:
“We are indebted to those soldiers who served with courage and distinction to bring peace to Northern Ireland,” UK Defence Secretary Gavin Williamson said. “The welfare of our former service personnel is of the utmost importance.”

Per Ardua ad Astra | Mens Agitat Molem | Victoria Concordia Crescit | Utrinque Paratus | Caveat lector

Offline Jimbo

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Re: N scale
« Reply #49 on: February 21, 2017, 03:30:52 PM »
Surely it's obvious.
Scales are what you find in a whaleweigh station and gauges are what you look at when weighing the aforesaid whales. Q.E.D. :)

It's the same for pies...if I need to know how much one weighs I go over the rainbow....weigh a pie!  :NGaugersRule:
'Keep it country!'

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Offline Elvinley

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Re: N scale
« Reply #50 on: February 21, 2017, 04:11:42 PM »
British N Fail may be more appropriate with the lack of QC and silly prices.

Offline ohlavache

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Re: N scale
« Reply #51 on: February 21, 2017, 11:12:49 PM »
Hello.
The debate on N scale vs. N gauge is really interesting, not to say it is fun to have it.
Of course, it doesn’t matter at all in the end.

First, N is for nine in German. This is what it means.
So it lets us think that N refers to the gauge, i.e. 9mm.

We need also to take into account that the scale may differ from one region to another.
So 'N' can be defined as modelling standard 1435mm gauge railways with autopropelled locomotives running over 9mm gauge tracks and produced in series.

Unfortunately, we have all these suffixes…
- ‘Nm’ to model metre gauge with Z tracks
- ‘Nn30’ (‘Ne’ could apply but this is not used) to model 30in gauge with 4.5mm tracks
- ‘Nf’ (‘Nn18’ could also apply but again not used) to model 50cm or 18in gauge with T tracks
And as far as I know it is always in 1:160.
We have the same with HO: HOm, HOn3, HOe / HOn30, HOn2 / HOf and even HOn15.

So this goes in favour of considering N as a scale.
This would mean, we need to distinguish ‘continental N scale’, 1:160, and ‘British N scale’, 1:148.

Some further thoughts.
What about modelling Japanese or Australian trains?

High-speed lines in Japan use the standard gauge, i.e. 1435mm. It is modelled in 1:160 using 9mm gauge tracks. It is part of the continental N scale family.

Apart high-speed lines, most Japanese and Australian lines use the 1067mm gauge, which is a narrow gauge compared to the standard one.
If you want to model 1067mm gauge at 1:150, then you should use 7.1mm gauge tracks. The closest thing to that is Z tracks. This is named ‘Nj’. (‘Nm’ is for modelling 1m gauge at 1:160 using Z tracks, slightly different.)
If you want to model 1067mm gauge using 9mm gauge tracks, then you should use TT scale. And you get ‘TT9’, 1:120 over 9mm gauge, which is used in Australia. It could also be named ‘TTj’ but this is not used.

It appears the N Japanese market offers 1:150 model trains running over 9mm gauge tracks to model Japanese 1067mm gauge and Swiss RhB metre gauge railways. This is ‘Japanese N scale’, but opposite to continental and British N scales it doesn’t model standard gauge railways. So it's not a "true" N scale, based on the definition above.  :doh:

To summarize:
- ‘continental N scale’ is for 1:160 over N tracks to model standard gauge railways
- ‘British N scale’ is for 1:148 over N tracks to model standard gauge railways
- ‘TT9’ is for 1:120 over N tracks to model 1067mm gauge railways
- ‘Nj’ is for 1:150 over Z tracks to model 1067mm gauge railways
- ‘Nm’ is for 1:160 over Z tracks to model metre gauge railways
- ‘Japanese N scale’ is for 1:150 over N tracks to model 1067mm or metre gauge railways

I hope you had fun reading this, without any headache.  :dunce:
Again, it doesn’t matter at the end, as long as we are N-thusiasts!  :)
CU

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« Last Edit: February 22, 2017, 10:33:09 AM by ohlavache »


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Re: N scale
« Reply #52 on: February 22, 2017, 02:20:16 AM »
For me it's simple:

'Gauge' is a noun in this context that denotes the distance between the track rails. It is a fixed measure, not a variable, as 'scale' can be as it describes a ratio.

So for we 'N' hobbyists/modellers/enthusiasts who choose to create or operate in various scales, for me there is only one term that encompasses us all, and it is the one that denotes the rails we all run our variously scaled trains upon: N Gauge.

That's how I consider it anyway, and if others have differing views then that's fine.

Not that it really matters. :D

I agree with above   :thumbsup:

Online dannyboy

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Re: N scale
« Reply #53 on: February 22, 2017, 08:36:22 AM »
Just read the post by ohlavache - my head hurts!  :headbutt:
David.
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Offline Bingley Hall

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Re: N scale
« Reply #54 on: February 22, 2017, 01:15:11 PM »
British N Fail may be more appropriate with the lack of QC and silly prices.
Not sure about Europe, but plenty of whingeing on US N forums about QC and rivet counting stuff.

As for prices, Bachmann list prices in the US are outrageous. I don't ever remember European N being cheap.

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Re: N scale
« Reply #55 on: February 22, 2017, 03:29:19 PM »
Isn't OO British 4mm and HO continental

So OOO should be British 2mm and N continental...

Why go O - OO - N seems a bit daft but maybe we should look to sort this before BREXIT...


Offline RailGooner

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Re: N scale
« Reply #56 on: February 22, 2017, 03:31:52 PM »
Isn't OO British 4mm and HO continental

So OOO should be British 2mm and N continental...

Why go O - OO - N seems a bit daft but maybe we should look to sort this before BREXIT...

 :no: Sounds political.
“We are indebted to those soldiers who served with courage and distinction to bring peace to Northern Ireland,” UK Defence Secretary Gavin Williamson said. “The welfare of our former service personnel is of the utmost importance.”

Per Ardua ad Astra | Mens Agitat Molem | Victoria Concordia Crescit | Utrinque Paratus | Caveat lector

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Re: N scale
« Reply #57 on: February 22, 2017, 03:44:55 PM »

Why go O - OO - N seems a bit daft but maybe we should look to sort this before BREXIT...

You've missed a few letters out there Fardap. ;)

For the full simplified world view :goggleeyes: :o look at this Wiki page

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rail_transport_modelling_scale_standards

 We could maybe travel serenely into the future on British No Gauge. :D

(Mods please note: This is not a political statement, just a joke.)
Mike

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Re: N scale
« Reply #58 on: February 23, 2017, 04:17:25 AM »
Just read the post by ohlavache - my head hurts!  :headbutt:

And mine... :) :)

Offline ohlavache

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Re: N scale
« Reply #59 on: February 26, 2017, 01:04:02 PM »
In order to give a greater headache, here are some tables listing all scales available for railway modelling.
This is something I did in early 2010 and this thread has encouraged me to update the lists.

First, we need to consider the suffixes added to the scale, which identifies the gauge modelled.
MOROP specifies the following ones:


But this doesn't fully reflect all the diversity we have. So I prefer the table below:

* only the main narrow gauges are listed
Note also that 'j' and 'n3½' are specific to Japan, Australia, New-Zealand and South Africa.

Then, when you model standard gauge (1435 mm) railway, you have plenty of choices:


If you model railway in Japan, Australia or New-Zealand (i.e. 3 ft 6 in or 1067 mm), then you have to select one of these to be accurate:


You can also select one of these two. They are less accurate but more "mass market":

Note: Japanese N is used by Kato for its famous RhB product line.

If you model metre or 3 ft gauge, then you have this long list:

Notes:
- SM45 models 3 ft gauge.
- Nm is also referred as Nn3. But 6.5mm gauge is not so accurate for 3 ft gauge.

If you model 30 in, 76 cm or 75 cm gauge, then you have this other list:

Note: OO9 is best to model 2 ft 3 in (686 mm) gauge railway.

Narrower and narrower with 2 ft and 50 cm gauge railway:

Notes:
- Using 9 mm gauge tracks for Sn2 is more accurate than 10.5 mm.
- OO6.5 is fine for 50 cm gauge.
- HOn2 can also use 7 mm gauge tracks.

And the most narrow you can find for 18 in and 15 in gauge railway:

Note: Instead of Gn15, we should say IIn15.

I must say that there is no product available for OO6.5, Zn2, HOn15 and TTn15.
I was really astonished to see they are so many different scales...
Feel free to complement.
CU
« Last Edit: February 26, 2017, 01:25:26 PM by ohlavache »


These locos and wagons are looking for a new home! (updated on 12 May 2019)

Wanted items (only in their original box):
- Union Mills, 3F 0-6-0 steam locomotive in LMS crimson

 

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