Buying secondhand locos

[Snowwolflair]

Farish Hall vs Dapol Hall  really no contest.

Unless the Dapol loco doesn't work! 

All mine do and they have sound 

[austinbob]

The sound is that cardan shaft whirring away David.

[Snowwolflair]

No but it raises an interesting point on lubrication.

Don't put mineral, or organic oil on plastic cardan shafts.  The oil eats the surface of the plastic and causes it to rub.  the best solution I have found, but may not be the only one, is a dry PVC lubricant I originally came across +35 years ago and made for stopping the sound of rubbing plastic panels in British Leyland cars.  These days bike repair shops stock a Teflon equivalent.  NB it is the opposite of Electrolube which can cause shorts, the Teflon version can insulate so keep it away from electrical pickups etc.

[daffy]

Fingers crossed I can find something to throw my money at.

But it might be hard.

You can always throw it my way, Daffy!

Doesn't Charity begin at home Mick?

It sure does - I'm getting Red Cross parcels already.
If you do throw the money my way please don't file the edges down first or it will be A & E rather than A & H for me.

Well Mick, after a short excursion to deepest Northamptonshire while the rest of the world went to Dapolland (I dropped in myself on the way back), I have the sad duty of informing you that donations from the Red Cross must continue to sustain you for some time to come. In short, I've spent up!

Three Fleischmann SBB locos bought, but sadly one will have to be returned as I made an error in selection, choosing a model that wasn't prototypical to my plans. Sad because I got it for a good price and though second hand it was in really very good condition and of good provenance.

Of the two brand new locos, one, an Re 460, is perfect, but the other has running issues, the motor 'chugging' (more in one direction than the other), and one of the bogies is causing the wheels to catch on curves, noticeably slowing the loco. This at 216mm radius, whereas Fleischmann's advised minimum is 192mm. My Kato test track includes some 150mm curves and if course it slows dramatically there, as expected, but oddly only in one direction. I suspect a back-to-back issue, but whatever it is I am sending it back so that Chris at A&H can hopefully resolve these two issues and return it to me.

Chris's shop is a veritable gold mine and is well worth a visit, and he is very helpful.

So, my secondhand purchase was fine, but a brand new one wasn't. That's life.

When I can get around to it (after SWMBO has finished baking a flan in it )I'll get some photos of the three and post in the appropriate thread.

[longbow]

It has dawned on me that if I'm going to get the smooth, slow speed running that I crave then I will have to get used to taking my locos apart and fettling them. And a second-hand loco is a good place to start with that. So if anyone has a strip-down guide to the Dapol Pannier please point the way.

It also appears that many initial problems with new locos are easily fixed so that will be another benefit of some competence in the fettling department.   

[silly moo]

Longbow, here is a link to a very good DCC sound tutorial for Dapol panniers which includes instructions on how to dismantle them:

http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=13765.msg137806#msg137806

I tried to get mine apart to lubricate it but it was 'glued' together with paint and I broke a few plastic tabs, so proceed with care.

[austinbob]

It also appears that many initial problems with new locos are easily fixed so that will be another benefit of some competence in the fettling department.   

In my opinion, if its a new loco and it has a fault, it should be returned as faulty. You shouldn't have to fix faulty goods of any kind. If a telly you bought was broken, would you try and fix it yourself - I don't think so.

The more we put up with faulty N gauge items then the less likely it is that the manufacturers will resolve the design/quality assurance and control problems.

Just because we are capable of fixing a new faulty loco, it doesn't mean we should. What about all the poor so and so's who have little technical knowledge and who just buy N gauge stuff to take out of the box and run on their layout.

[longbow]

What I have in mind is improving below-average performers rather than repairing duds. 

[Dr Al]

Just because we are capable of fixing a new faulty loco, it doesn't mean we should. What about all the poor so and so's who have little technical knowledge and who just buy N gauge stuff to take out of the box and run on their layout.

This is true, but equally, it's a constructional hobby where even if you buy everything new and it all works perfectly, sooner or later you will run into a situation where you will need to gain technical knowledge, if nothing else but to maintain those models.

We live in an era of chequebook modelling, where fewer and fewer seem willing to do as much - which is a crying shame as it's one of the best bits of the hobby!

Cheers,
Alan

[daffy]

Just because we are capable of fixing a new faulty loco, it doesn't mean we should. What about all the poor so and so's who have little technical knowledge and who just buy N gauge stuff to take out of the box and run on their layout.

This is true, but equally, it's a constructional hobby where even if you buy everything new and it all works perfectly, sooner or later you will run into a situation where you will need to gain technical knowledge, if nothing else but to maintain those models.

We live in an era of chequebook modelling, where fewer and fewer seem willing to do as much - which is a crying shame as it's one of the best bits of the hobby!

Cheers,
Alan

I must agree with you Alan, though not with regard to faulty new items. Any tinkering or fettling that fails to bring the desired result will lead to an invalidation of any warranty or other consumer rights.

I am all for fettling and tinkering, and agree that the "buy - run - fault - replace" ethos of some is not the way forward for the continuing or developing hobbyist. I need to get used to taking stuff apart, and putting it back together again, but never on a new loco that has failed right out of the box.

I'm on the lookout for that elusive box of bits that offer so much joy without expensive risk.

[dodger]

Quite true Dr Al I've yet to buy a loco that hasn't failed to run poorly, but a bit of maintenance seems to solve most problems. I suppose a yearly service isn't too bad.

Doesn't not maintaining a loco invalidate the warranty?

Dodger

[Dr Al]

Doesn't not maintaining a loco invalidate the warranty?

Depends what you do - oiling, cleaning certainly shouldn't.

Warranties are fairly finite anyway - a year or two. It pretty quickly goes, so after that you are on your own anyway, and will sooner or later have to do something to a loco that's >2 years old.

Cheers,
Alan

[austinbob]

If people are happy fettling their locos then fine. However, I wonder how many N gauge modellers are not interested in fettling and just want things to work properly.
As regards maintenance, as far as I'm aware, Dapol and Farish only indicate that periodic oiling is required. There is no mention in instructions of any other maintenance requirements. So the non fettlers would never consider doing anything to their locos other than oiling.
So if a loco breaks out of warranty many people would send their loco off to be repaired or perhaps bin it if too expensive to fix.
Its a bit like cars I suppose. Some enthusiasts will do their own maintenance and repair. Most will get their garage to do the work.

A final thought... I wonder how many N gaugers are fettlers and how many are not? I suspect a sizeable proportion of forum members are fettlers and find the forum content helpful in this respect. I also suspect that most of Joe public are not in the slightest bit interested in fiddling with locos. In fact people starting out in N gauge must find it a real turn off if their first purchase doesn't work - they may dump the hobby straight away and that's bad for us all.

[silly moo]

I do a certain amount of fettling but agree that it shouldn't be necessary on a new loco. I'm finding it more and more difficult to work on locos as my eyes are getting worse and the locos are becoming more and more detailed and difficult to dismantle.

I have an N class loco with damaged valve gear, I bought the spare parts but I'm afraid my courage failed me when it came to fitting them. The broken bits have been removed and the loco is running with simplified gear on one side.

The next time I am in the U.K. I will send it to an expert for repairs.

[Dr Al]

If people are happy fettling their locos then fine. However, I wonder how many N gauge modellers are not interested in fettling

If I may dare to go off topic.....but are they really 'modellers' then...?

As regards maintenance, as far as I'm aware, Dapol and Farish only indicate that periodic oiling is required. There is no mention in instructions of any other maintenance requirements. So the non fettlers would never consider doing anything to their locos other than oiling.

Basic cleaning of wheels and pickups also must be in there - even "non-fettlers" will run into needing to do this sooner or later.

Even oiling can be got wrong - if you douse the thing in oil that's often worse than not oiling it.

Cheers,
Alan