price rises - how long can this be sustainable

[Agrippa]

Jeez this thread has been running longer than the Mousetrap.

[Newportnobby]

A simple figure showing the labour cost as a percentage of overall manufacturing cost, Mike, not that I think any of the manufacturers would dare cough that figure up

Nor should they because it varies for each model! I can give you figures but if you won't trust me telling you are wrong then why would you believe my figures...

If you have the figures for Farish and/or Dapol by all means let me know, Mike. PM me if necessary.
I'll be happy to apologise and back down if they prove me well off with my figure of 40% ish

[ScottyStitch]

Maybe we could change the thread title:

price rises thread - how long can this be sustained 

[railsquid]

Maybe we could change the thread title:

price rises thread - how long can this be sustained 

How about: Dapol quality issues - is it that time of day again? 

[red_death]

If you have the figures for Farish and/or Dapol by all means let me know, Mike. PM me if necessary.
I'll be happy to apologise and back down if they prove me well off with my figure of 40% ish

I don't have the Farish or Dapol figures, but I have them for 4 of our 5 projects and as I have already said production costs outweigh tooling by varying amounts (depending on the complexity of the model). For Farish and Dapol who typically have larger production runs that will be even more the case. Plus they have retailer margins to add in.

[zwilnik]

If you have the figures for Farish and/or Dapol by all means let me know, Mike. PM me if necessary.
I'll be happy to apologise and back down if they prove me well off with my figure of 40% ish

I don't have the Farish or Dapol figures, but I have them for 4 of our 5 projects and as I have already said production costs outweigh tooling by varying amounts (depending on the complexity of the model). For Farish and Dapol who typically have larger production runs that will be even more the case. Plus they have retailer margins to add in.

Plus, if they've been caught out by a big jump in labour costs (essentially a sudden change in government & industry policy) that looks like it'll repeat or trend upwards in future, they're going to have to factor in some margin to cope with future volatility. Essentially they've got to balance their past/future predictions of costings to avoid massive future losses if the trends are different. Something that's likely when a major part of the equation is in flux like this.

[fisherman]

A VERY interesting  test will be the new 009Pecket outside frame locos  just on the  market  from Fourdees @ £200 each.

To me, they look  superb but I wonder about  the flatness of the  3 D printed bodies.

009 must be a smaller market than N  gauge but I think  they look  very interesting.

I don't suppose  it will be  easy to  see one in the  local  shop  either!

[Maurits71]

well I am going to back Mike up regarding the labour cost. 5 years ago I could buy an a certain product for 2 dollars with a minimum order quantity of 600 pieces. now I need to buy the same product in a run of 1500 and I have to pay 3 dollars. also everybody has to take in account that the pound dollar rate is 15 % more expensive then 12 months ago so its easy to explain why we pay more.

next to this donT forget that regulations are getting toucher, new rules regarding % lead in solder is an example, solder according to the regulations is simply 50% more expensive, same for plastics etc.

Like Mike said company house figures are easy to obtain, I have done it a while ago and it s not big business profit wise. 

left or right it s simple we like it or not. If you don t like it stop buying otherwise sorry but just accept it. It is what it is and my forecast is that soon it will be another 20 % more expensive for similar quality products.

If indeed the manufacters are greedy we have something to say but figures are showing otherwise.

[Dr Al]

next to this donT forget that regulations are getting toucher, new rules regarding % lead in solder is an example, solder according to the regulations is simply 50% more expensive, same for plastics etc.

EU?

Cheers,
Alan

[zwilnik]

next to this donT forget that regulations are getting toucher, new rules regarding % lead in solder is an example, solder according to the regulations is simply 50% more expensive, same for plastics etc.

EU?

Cheers,
Alan

Worldwide. Most modern countries are tightening up environmental laws to avoid being exploited as toxic dumping grounds.

[Newportnobby]

I'd have no problems if the manufacturers had been open from the start and stated either just that 'rising costs year on year have forced our hand' or put some flesh on the bones stating where the costs have been rising e.g. raw materials, labour, shipping costs, overheads, etc etc (which would be more unusual but more believable). Instead, the Chinese government was fully blamed for the increase owing to implementing a 20% wage increase every year for 5 years.
20% increase on 40% Labour as a % of overall costs = 8%
         50% Labour as a % of overall costs = 10%         
         60% Labour as a % of overall costs = 12%
         70% Labour as a % of overall costs = 14%
         80% Labour as a % of overall costs = 16%

Choose whichever % labour cost you believe in and then check some of the price increases we've been faced with and it's patently obvious not everything is down to the wage increase. All I'm seeking is honesty but it ain't forthcoming and I doubt it ever will be.

[trkilliman]

I also very much doubt we shall ever know the full reasons behind such sharp price increases.

Ultimately you either pay the seemingly ongoing increases or you don't. The level of price increases is not matched by salary/pension increases for the majority of people. Some will go without other things because they feel they must have a certain model/s, others will simply be priced out or cut back on their purchases. I believe across the board many will decide to cut back, and several had said such on this forum.

[guest311]

Is it me, or are we not now getting the reduction we used to get on new models.
I seem to remember that when a new loco came out, at £x, after a few months it dropped to £y, I believe something to do with a pricing 'rule' from Bachmann.
Now it seems that a loco comes out at £x, and stays at that price 
I am sure that when I bought my 47 701 / 710 / 711 they were £ 101.96, and guess what, they still are 

prices refer to the Liverpool supplier, not sure what other retailers did.

is this another 'price rise' that we should expect in the future ? I'd pre-order one of a loco at the initial price, but if I wanted needed more, I'd wait till the cooling off period and buy them at the lower price.
we've already lost, so it appears, pre order prices, replaced by 'if it goes up we'll offer you the choice to cancel'.

views ?

alan

[Agrippa]

I also very much doubt we shall ever know the full reasons behind such sharp price increases.

Ultimately you either pay the seemingly ongoing increases or you don't. The level of price increases is not matched by salary/pension increases for the majority of people. Some will go without other things because they feel they must have a certain model/s, others will simply be priced out or cut back on their purchases. I believe across the board many will decide to cut back, and several had said such on this forum.

The reason for price increases is irrelevant, if you want the latest product you'll either
have to pay up or go without.

[red_death]

Folks

We can kid ourselves as much as we want, but Bachmann have been very open about price increases and why they were necessary (and that was never solely down to wage increases in China). Either they are raking in massive profits and lying to us (they aren't) or they were telling the truth (and prices needed to rise because manufacturing costs increased dramatically and they were struggling to models made by their parent group when they were not making any return).

No one likes price rises, but fooling ourselves (or giving others false hope) that there is an easy solution is wrong. There is more than enough information in the public domain to know the truth but some prefer to ignore it...

Cheers, Mike