Mk1 BR coaches 1969-70

[KeithR]

Hello my name is Keith and i'm new to this forum,but not model railways.

I am planning a layout of a town terminus in 'N' gauge, set in 1969-70 somewhere in Kent.My general railway and modelling knowledge is limited,which is why hopefully you can help me.I will be adding post's from time to time,as there are quite a few answers that i need,mainly on general railway knowledge.I know that some modellers use a lot of poetic license,but i would like to be fairly accurate with the traffic,although my layout will be fictitious.

As my model is set in 1969-70 era,so i need some help with coach liveries and what class of locomotives would have been seen in that region.I would imagine that rakes of MK1 coaches were very mixed(green/blue & grey/maroon)??Please correct me if i'm wrong.
I know that class 33's were common along with Emu 411 CEP's,47's,but not sure about 37's.You are probably going to laugh at my next suggestion,as i understand that this class was mainly seen in the Western Region/London,but would you have seen a class 22 in Kent?? Also a class 108 DMU?,which i suspect not,as a lot of Kent may have been electrified in 1969-70?

Would you have seen a blue/grey restaurant car in a small rake of say 5-6 MK1 coaches?

I would appreciate any helpful info on this subject.

Cheers
Keith

[austinbob]

Welcome to the forum Keith.
Can't really help you myself but I'm sure there will be many who can help along shortly

[ScottyStitch]

Hi Keith, and welcome.

There is lots of knowledge on the forum and someone will be along shortly with definitive answers, but off the bat, very very unlikely for either a 22 or a 108 to ever have been seen in Kent. It may have happened once or twice, but certainly not on a regular basis. Ditto 37s I'd have thought.  Most unlikely to have seen Maroon coaches . Blue and Grey equally as unlikely during your 69-70 time frame.

Like I said plenty more knowledge will be incoming, especially if @karhedron pokes his head in the door......

[NeMo]

I would imagine that rakes of MK1 coaches were very mixed (green/blue &grey/maroon)??

The switchover to corporate "InterCity" blue-grey was actually quite quick. But yes, you'd see the odd green and maroon coach by 1968 but they were very rare by 1970. Lots of recorded exceptions of course, but if you were trying to evoke the pre-TOPS corporate image era, most, perhaps all of your coaches should be blue-grey.

not sure about 37's.

You don't really need an excuse to run a 37 anywhere on the BR network! That said, most of the sort of work they'd do would be handled by the Southern's own 33s. In my opinion and limited experience (living in a house overlooking an SR mainline during the 1980s) things like cement trains and departmental workings would be behind a 33 rather than a 37. But as I say, no need for Rule #1 if you want to use both!

You are probably going to laugh at my next suggestion,as i understand that this class was mainly seen in the Western Region/London,but would you have seen a class 22 in Kent??

Not aware of any 22s working in Kent, but Class 52s regularly did, running heavy aggregate trains and, I believe, block trains of oil tankers.

Also a class 108 DMU?,which i suspect not,as a lot of Kent may have been electrified in 1969-70?

The SR tended to use DEMUs rather than DMUs for non-electrified lines. These are/were the famous "Thumpers" numbered in the Class 2xx series as opposed to the 1xx series used for diesel-mechanical units. Not aware of any ready to run models of any of them, though I believe Electra Graphics/N-Train have a kit in development.

Cheers, NeMo

[ScottyStitch]

I would imagine that rakes of MK1 coaches were very mixed (green/blue &grey/maroon)??

The switchover to corporate "InterCity" blue-grey was actually quite quick. But yes, you'd see the odd green and maroon coach by 1968 but they were very rare by 1970. Lots of recorded exceptions of course, but if you were trying to evoke the pre-TOPS corporate image era, most, perhaps all of your coaches should be blue-grey.



Cheers, NeMo

I'm curious NeMo, I thought the Southern region held onto their green a lot longer than the others had held onto their Maroon. Every day is a school day!

[NeMo]

I'm curious NeMo, I thought the Southern region held onto their green a lot longer than the others had held onto their Maroon. Every day is a school day!

As a teacher, can I say, "glad to hear every day is a school day!". 

But honestly, not an expert on this, but some time ago read a very good thread on RMWeb about this. Weirdly, some of the last green coaches operated in Scotland in 1970.

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=35874

The West Highland line had some green and white Mk1s during the 1980s but that's another story...

Cheers, NeMo

[railsquid]

And ironically some NSE coaches were cascaded to Scotland after becoming surplus down south.

This site:  http://www.semgonline.com has a lot of detail about Southern Region stuff, including something on Mk1 coaches.

[Newportnobby]

Hi Keith, and welcome to the forum

I reckon folks have covered the MK1 livery aspect, and rather than consider class 37s I would suggest maybe class 47s which could have worked through from the Western Region and Eastern Region.
I've had a good look through my Ian Allan locoshed book for 1969 and there are no diesels other than the class 33 allocated to the Southern region which is pretty much what you'd expect.

[NeMo]

I've had a good look through my Ian Allan locoshed book for 1969 and there are no diesels other than the class 33 allocated to the Southern region which is pretty much what you'd expect.

This is true, but "visitors" were very common on interregional workings, like the D800s and later on the Class 50s operating out of Waterloo.

The SR also had Class 09 shunters which had a higher top speed than the standard 08, enabling them to handle some trip workings without messing up timetables too much. Differences between the 08 and 09 are slight, an extra toolbox(?) on each side.

We are missing an obvious diesel though, the electro-diesels. The Dapol 73 is one of their older models. The earlier iterations are a bit noisier than we've come to expect, and secondhand specimens often lose the horns at each end. But other than that you can get these relatively inexpensively, including pre-TOPS blue E6005, which would be perfect for your time frame.

My "spotting" years were during the 1980s and living on the SR I'd see a lot of 73s and 33s. I'd have thought that they'd be the two classes you'd have to own if you were setting up an SR-based layout. Of course multiple units were far more common than either, but the range of these is limited to the 4CEP and the 5BEL at the moment, plus various kits.

Cheers, NeMo

[ScottyStitch]

I'm curious NeMo, I thought the Southern region held onto their green a lot longer than the others had held onto their Maroon. Every day is a school day!

As a teacher, can I say, "glad to hear every day is a school day!". 

But honestly, not an expert on this, but some time ago read a very good thread on RMWeb about this. Weirdly, some of the last green coaches operated in Scotland in 1970.

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=35874

The West Highland line had some green and white Mk1s during the 1980s but that's another story...

Cheers, NeMo

Hi NeMo, yes I'm aware of both the green coaches in Scotland, although I'm sure they weren't MK1s. The WHL green and cream were very attractive.

[railsquid]

I'm curious NeMo, I thought the Southern region held onto their green a lot longer than the others had held onto their Maroon. Every day is a school day!

As a teacher, can I say, "glad to hear every day is a school day!". 

But honestly, not an expert on this, but some time ago read a very good thread on RMWeb about this. Weirdly, some of the last green coaches operated in Scotland in 1970.

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=35874

The West Highland line had some green and white Mk1s during the 1980s but that's another story...

Cheers, NeMo

Hi NeMo, yes I'm aware of both the green coaches in Scotland, although I'm sure they weren't MK1s. The WHL green and cream were very attractive.

Mk2s, as I was very kindly informed on a previous thread.

Back on topic, if this page is anything to go by, 37s were pretty much unknown in Kent until the late BR era.

[ScottyStitch]

I'm curious NeMo, I thought the Southern region held onto their green a lot longer than the others had held onto their Maroon. Every day is a school day!

As a teacher, can I say, "glad to hear every day is a school day!". 

But honestly, not an expert on this, but some time ago read a very good thread on RMWeb about this. Weirdly, some of the last green coaches operated in Scotland in 1970.

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=35874

The West Highland line had some green and white Mk1s during the 1980s but that's another story...

Cheers, NeMo

Hi NeMo, yes I'm aware of both the green coaches in Scotland, although I'm sure they weren't MK1s. The WHL green and cream were very attractive.

Mk2s, as I was very kindly informed on a previous thread.

Back on topic, if this page is anything to go by, 37s were pretty much unknown in Kent until the late BR era.

Squiddy, I think the ones I am thinking of were Bullieds, swapped for MK1s. Information from the oracle-esque @Karhedron as I recall.

[NeMo]

Mk2s, as I was very kindly informed on a previous thread.

Bachmann at least think they're Mk1s...

http://www.ehattons.com/64220/Bachmann_Branchline_39_000Y_2_x_BR_MK1_SO_2nd_Class_Open_Coaches_Coach_A_IC3767C_Coach_B_IC21241C_in_BR_West/StockDetail.aspx

I love how this thread has gone from the southeast corner of Britain to the northwestern corner in the space of a dozen posts!

Cheers, NeMo

[Newportnobby]

Just showing we're not geographically challenged or biased

[ScottyStitch]

Just showing we're not geographically challenged or biased

Nae matter whaur ye may roam, ye'll aye return tae Scotland!