Book end 125 HST locomotive alternative?

petercharlesfagg · December 19, 2015, 05:36:19 PM

Friends,

Since a decent second hand model of the motor and dummy units for a Blue/Grey HST 125 are like hens teeth, what locomotive could be a good substitute?

I ask because as many are aware I was given (3) Blue/Grey coaches without buffers about a year ago but eventually I would like to run them using something that does not look too out of place! (Unusual, for me!)

I have bought some Grafar buffers to modify but am at a loss as to the locomotive to pull them?

Any ideas would be appreciated, Peter.

railsquid · December 19, 2015, 05:51:23 PM

Chiltern Railways operate a set of blue/grey Mk3s with some new-fangled diesel and a DVT (which IIRC is not available in N) on services between Marylebone and Birmingham (I was most bemused to see it on a trip last year).

Or you could add a Mk1 buffet and full brake and pretend it's a 70s/80s AC-hauled WCML train, though the problem is matching blue AC locos are rarer than the teeth of a very rare endangered species hen. On the plus side both the Dapol 86 and Farish 87 are available quite cheaply. Or put a blue diesel on it and pretend it's on a diversion.

robert shrives · December 19, 2015, 06:11:26 PM

Hi Firstly a brake of some kind - a Braked Gangway (BG) for guard to hide in.
Some short coach only working like a bit of an West coast main line set is where you would look. I recall Class 40 on Heysham runs or certainly a class47/4 with stock
I guess you could top and tail - class 20s.

Blue grey predates the DVT as available but East coast operator Hull Trains did run blue 86 with reliveried MK3s - Cargo D and a rail blue DVT... so that might be a fun idea.

Other thought would be to to repaint a BSO into a DBSO - yellow end and black painted windows? and a 47/7

If however rule one applies any eth loco would be fair game as it could have been a push pull sub class
just my ten pence worth
Robert

railsquid · December 19, 2015, 06:15:21 PM

See also: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/40855-loco-hauled-mk3s/

railsquid · December 19, 2015, 06:36:00 PM

Quote from: robert shrives on December 19, 2015, 06:11:26 PM
Blue grey predates the DVT as available but East coast operator Hull Trains did run blue 86 with reliveried MK3s - Cargo D and a rail blue DVT... so that might be a fun idea.

An article on repainting the DVT fpr this formation appears in NGS Journal 2/15.

CaleyDave · December 19, 2015, 07:56:09 PM

Perhaps the most basic would be to run a full brake between the loco and the mk3's to represent a rolling stock transfer.
If you want to brake away from BR Blue they could be ran with an intercity executive or Swallow HST.

Alternatively if you want to overlook the lack of buffers and stick to the BR Blue era;

As was suggested by robert shrives above a 47 (47/7 if you want to be more accurate) and a mk2 brake acting as a DBSO (Driving Brake Standard Open) could represented a Edinburgh to Glasgow Push and Pull.

A Rule one suggestion would be a pair of class 27's as a fictional Edinburgh-Glasgow push and pull during the transition in the 80's.

If you don't have an electric to run a WCML rake behind there is always the Clansman which ran from Euston to Inverness with I think a 47 and a mixture of alsorts of mk2's as well as a Mk1 Brakes and restaurant cars.

Apologies for Scottish only suggestions, not a clued up on what ran south of the boarder.

MJKERR · December 19, 2015, 08:03:28 PM

Are these Mark 3 coaches, the older Farish or latest Dapol?

Quote from: petercharlesfagg on December 19, 2015, 05:36:19 PMSince a decent second hand model of the motor and dummy units for a Blue/Grey HST 125 are like hens teeth, what locomotive could be a good substitute?

Farish -
If you have the bodies then you can swap them onto the latest DCC version, that is what I did with two of mine
You will not have any problem selling the spare bodies

Personally, I would go for the Dapol version, expect to wait some time and pay a premium rate

petercharlesfagg · December 20, 2015, 01:02:42 PM

Friends, thank you for allthe information.

As it is I have found a used Mk3 buffet car in the same livery but am experiencing difficulty in finding a brake?

Can anyone suggest the maker and part number for me to search?

Regards, Peter.

Bealman · December 20, 2015, 01:10:32 PM

No, Peter, but it's great seeing you back here and I'm sure our knowledgeable members will answer that in the next few nanoseconds.

All the best to you and your family for the festive season!

George

No hijack intended..... a brake for a Mk3 buffet train? Easy....

railsquid · December 20, 2015, 01:13:25 PM

Quote from: petercharlesfagg on December 20, 2015, 01:02:42 PM
Friends, thank you for allthe information.

As it is I have found a used Mk3 buffet car in the same livery but am experiencing difficulty in finding a brake?

Can anyone suggest the maker and part number for me to search?

There's no Mk3 brake per-se. In the HSTs the guard's compartment was at the inner end of each power car; for loco-hauled services, typically Mk1 buffets and Mk1 full brakes were used (and you could often see trains with a mix of Mk1, Mk2 and Mk3 stock).

Deltic9001 · December 20, 2015, 03:24:39 PM

There were 3 Mark 3b Brake First Open coaches for use with loco-hauled sets on the WCML. They were numbered 17173, 17174 and 17175. The were introduced in 1985 but I think these were originally in Inter-City livery and not blue/grey. They eventually became part of the Virgin Trains fleet in their livery.

There are some discussions referring to these coaches here:
http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=28143

petercharlesfagg · December 20, 2015, 06:23:12 PM

Quote from: Deltic9001 on December 20, 2015, 03:24:39 PM
There were 3 Mark 3b Brake First Open coaches for use with loco-hauled sets on the WCML. They were numbered 17173, 17174 and 17175. The were introduced in 1985 but I think these were originally in Inter-City livery and not blue/grey. They eventually became part of the Virgin Trains fleet in their livery.

There are some discussions referring to these coaches here:
http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=28143

Thank you Andy but I think I may have confused you, I was thinking of a model manufacturer and the part number rather than the actual vehicle?

Regards, Peter

Mr PJ · December 20, 2015, 08:27:21 PM

Hello,

Another interesting formation that used to operate occasionally on the Western Region in the early to Mid-eighties was referred to as the "generator set". It basically consisted of a BG equipped with a generator, and was compatible with HST vehicles.
If there was a shortage of power cars this set would get kicked out with any available locomotive, usually a no-heat 47 but could even be a 47/4 or 50.

Not sure of the external modifications to the BG, and there was probably one at each end so that locos could couple up the HST Mk3's.

I suppose this would be modelling HST's with a power car alternative.

A shorter rake that used Blue and grey Mk3s was when Wreham and Shropshire ran their Marylebone to Wrexham service with 67's a few years back, one rake was blue/grey Mk3s plus DVT. I think there was only 3 or 4 mk3s in the formation.

Cheers
Paul

robert shrives · December 20, 2015, 08:36:53 PM

Hi,
Farish BG orginal body in blue grey to match farish colour :
374-025 and A and B re runs.

All available fairly cheaply secondhand

Robert

petercharlesfagg · December 24, 2015, 06:10:34 PM

Quote from: robert shrives on December 20, 2015, 08:36:53 PM
Hi,
Farish BG orginal body in blue grey to match farish colour :
374-025 and A and B re runs.

All available fairly cheaply secondhand

Robert

Robert is this the one to which you refer?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/374-025B-GRAHAM-FARISH-N-GAUGE-MK-1-BG-FULL-BRAKE-BLUE-GREY-/121837008758?hash=item1c5e0d3776:g:tFYAAOSwwE5WaXWs

It just looks shorter than the HST coaches?

Regards, Peter.