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Author Topic: Barely any bargains  (Read 11472 times)

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Offline DELETED

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Re: Barely any bargains
« Reply #30 on: December 14, 2015, 09:04:42 PM »
The way I see it these days is there's a 50-50 split between those of us who've steadily been watching prices climb and there's the second half quite willing to pay the increased costs and obviously have more disposable income.  The argument is coming up all the time but it's most definitely going one way these days but that's a different argument.

I think "bargains" come and go and I think there's a 6 month period between plenty and none.  But I really do think prices have climbed progressively higher the past 2 years, to the point I'm glad I bought my loco stock between 3-5 years ago because I'm just not paying todays prices a) for ultra fine detail which in my experience falls off and b) or for second hand items now being punted at 85% of the price for new.  I really like some of Dapols Diesels but have yet to buy any because of completely sub-standard factory paint jobs.

I don't order from Hattons now, to be fair they have allot of stock and do put at decent prices occasionally but their delivery lets them down and I'm finding local shops can pretty much match the price.  I think Rails of Sheffields' second hand prices have risen steadily also.  I do use EBay but only for buy it now at the right price.  I do firmly believe "most" things have a value and what someone else is willing to pay is different to that.  When I sell I always check prices first, list as buy it now and if I just want to sell it I always make sure it's priced a bit better than what I can find.

I actually made the Falkirk MRC show this year for the first time in about 30 years(!) and I went mainly for a mooch round the stalls.  Whilst I was not expecting bargains I was absolutely shocked when I saw a couple of current Farish items from a trader at 50% more than I've seen recently in the local shops!  The second hand wagons and coaches on the stalls were generally tat at almost new prices.  I listened to one stall holder talking to a passer by for 15 mins about struggling to cover costs (while I was standing patiently waiting to be served) and I did pick up 3 used Peco Railfreight vans -but they were the same price as new.  Have to admit I took pity and didn't haggle, I'd have only spend the difference in tram fares / petrol going to the shops.

Quick plug for my soon to be ex-local "Sports and Model" shop in Dingwall, Ross-Shire as they always have good prices and often have a small stock at internet prices.  Excellent range of modelling materials also.  I rarely get to Harburn Hobbies in Edinburgh but happened on their sale day a fortnight ago.  Got a new Reg Railways DMU for something like 60 and a Lafarge JPA for 16, everything Farish and Peco was discounted so also got 3 Peco TTA kits for 4 each also.  So I saved a fair bit, including the 3 return tram fare to Edinburgh park and ride.

...So there are some bargains out there, but still have to be prepared for steady price increases I guess.  You just have to be patient.

Offline NeMo

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Re: Barely any bargains
« Reply #31 on: December 14, 2015, 09:13:57 PM »
Let's take the Cumbrian Mountain Express train pack. Hattons price is a few pence under 132. Bought individually, a BR green 'Duchess' would be 127.46, the Mk1 coaches are 24.61 a piece, and the Blue Anchor signal box is 25.46. Grand total, 226.75. So while you're not getting exactly the same items, you're still getting a saving of about 100 by buying the train pack. That's insanely good value.
Yes, I have been contemplating that one for some time now, since NPN brought it to my notice, trouble is I would rather have maroon coaches !
PS, First it is Cumberland, then it's Cumbria, no telling what local gov. reorg indignity will be next, now it seems the denizens of West Somerset have staged a coup and are claiming Ais Gil signal box for their own ? !! (sorry NeMo couldnt resist :) )

Ah, I wasn't saying the the Blue Anchor signalbox was in the pack, any more than the 'Duchess' on the inside is in BR green. Merely quoting the price of roughly equivalent models.

The Ais Gill signalbox is rather nice, but as you suggest, not really useful anywhere else than a Cumbrian setting.

Cheers, NeMo
NGS Journal Editor

Offline MalcolmInN

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Re: Barely any bargains
« Reply #32 on: December 14, 2015, 10:45:40 PM »
Merely quoting the price of roughly equivalent models.
Oh dear yes, I see now. Sorry, I totally mis-read your post  :dunce:  :admiration:

Offline trkilliman

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Re: Barely any bargains
« Reply #33 on: December 14, 2015, 11:23:24 PM »
This thread has certainly brought out lots of interesting views and opinions. If you have come into the hobby quite recently then you will probably be unaware how prices have risen over the last couple of years. The reasons given include a sizeable increase in pay for workers in the Chinese factories, and employment benefits for them. It is said that the Chinese authorities have said these things are to be implemented. Now I would not knock the prosperity and conditions for the workers being enhanced, but I do wonder what percentage of price increases is down to the above and increased raw materials costs?
Newly released carriages hovering around the 30 mark at rrp does seem steep if you have been into N for some years. Granted the detail is great, but personally I would now purchase a couple as opposed to a good rake, and over time. I do not have an endless amount to spend on model railways!

I am glad that I have amassed so much prior to the price rises of the last couple of years, as I could get by nicely with what I already have. But of course I drool over some of the new items like anyone else.

I do think that each time the prices rise more people will start to look closely at whether to purchase items, where they may have done so previously without a second thought. It is a catch 22 situation where a drop in sales could lead to a drop in new models/investment...only time will tell. A very interesting thread though where I am enjoying reading the quite varied views of others.

Offline JasonBz

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Re: Barely any bargains
« Reply #34 on: December 14, 2015, 11:28:20 PM »
It seems that the "big players" in UK outline model railways had ended up in a place where the only option was to raise prices, if they wished to continue in this line of business.

IMO the perception that things have gotten expensive all of a sudden is a bit wrong-headed- it is more a case that products were too cheap for the last few years if anything.

Offline Les1952

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Re: Barely any bargains
« Reply #35 on: December 15, 2015, 09:01:22 AM »
Just one thought.

A thread here bemoans the lack of bargains to be had.

A thread elsewhere hammers Dapol for selling off cheaply at shows the stuff dealers haven't bought, thus giving modellers a chance to get some stuff at bargain prices.

Consistent lot, aren't we......
Les

Offline MikeDunn

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Re: Barely any bargains
« Reply #36 on: December 15, 2015, 09:22:19 AM »
A thread elsewhere hammers Dapol for selling off cheaply at shows the stuff dealers haven't bought, thus giving modellers a chance to get some stuff at bargain prices.
Actually, that thread points out that the Monthly Bargains from Dapol have been the same for many a month now !

Hardly a Monthly Bargain, more like an All-Year Sale of the same items !  :thumbsdown:  Now, if they alternated these particular non-sellers every couple of months, so that each month had a different set available, I doubt we'd twig  ::)

Offline Newportnobby

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Re: Barely any bargains
« Reply #37 on: December 15, 2015, 10:12:12 AM »
The way I see it these days is there's a 50-50 split between those of us who've steadily been watching prices climb and there's the second half quite willing to pay the increased costs and obviously have more disposable income.  The argument is coming up all the time but it's most definitely going one way these days but that's a different argument.


There is also the third half ( ???) like me who do have some disposable income but not a lot so whereas I'd spend quite a lot on models that amount has now been at least halved due to the high prices now being charged. My pre orders that contained 'would be nice to have' and 'must have' have now been curtailed to purely 'must have' items, and many of those are purely because if I miss out on them chances are there will not be a second run. So far, Farish/Dapol have lost some 700 worth of my business due to this re-structuring but I doubt it means much to them unless others around the country are doing the same.

Offline MikeDunn

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Re: Barely any bargains
« Reply #38 on: December 15, 2015, 10:22:42 AM »
I suspect, Mick, a lot of us look at the current pricing & then have to have a very hard think about whether we really want it or not ... so I agree that you can't say it's a 50/50 split.  Maybe a 25/50/25 split between the "watchers", the "hard thinkers" & the "loadsamoney" brigade ?  Just a guess.

I can't put a cost against the items I've not gone with (as I don't do pre-orders except where, as you say, it's a "must-have" with the risk of missing out otherwise), but like you it's likely in the middle / high hundreds ...

Offline Ensign Elliott

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Re: Barely any bargains
« Reply #39 on: December 15, 2015, 10:31:53 AM »

There is also the third half ( ???) like me who do have some disposable income but not a lot so whereas I'd spend quite a lot on models that amount has now been at least halved due to the high prices now being charged. My pre orders that contained 'would be nice to have' and 'must have' have now been curtailed to purely 'must have' items, and many of those are purely because if I miss out on them chances are there will not be a second run. So far, Farish/Dapol have lost some 700 worth of my business due to this re-structuring but I doubt it means much to them unless others around the country are doing the same.

Agreed. This about sums me up. I used to be able to buy 5 or 6 locos at Warley each year - with the same amount of money, this has now dropped about 3, and those are ones I have to really think about.

Overall, as the quality has increased over the past few years, I'm willing to pay more for better detailed models, however as a DC user, I dislike having to pay extra for "DCC ready" models which is something I'm not going to use.

Offline Mr Sprue

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Re: Barely any bargains
« Reply #40 on: December 15, 2015, 10:47:35 AM »
Going along with what trkilliman and JasonBz have said about increased manufacturing costs there are still bargains out there to be had especially on ebay,  but no one has really taken into account that whats being sold today most is probably good value even if prices do seem to be a little higher.

In a year or two's time I wonder if people will bemoan they missed the opportunity to purchase something that appeared to be too expensive, given that the value of the second hand N market will no doubt rise along with the increasing prices of new models. 

As for Dapol undercutting dealers at shows who purchase from them is appalling business ethics, unlike Bachmann who will only sell items at the RRP, but that's another subject.

Offline MalcolmInN

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Re: Barely any bargains
« Reply #41 on: December 15, 2015, 10:55:08 AM »
It seems we are now discussing the usual price of an item and wondering if it is reasonable / affordable.
Whereas a bargain price is relative to the above.

But it is all relative !
If one is used to paying say 50 for a loco and then they become 150 it is a bit of a problem, but when your kids grow up and start buying their own toys then 150 for a loco will seem incredibly cheap.

I remember a time when two second hand Hornby Dublo locos was all I would get, one for my birthday and one for Xmas. I would have to wait a year for any more cos father was skint :( cue violins !

So it is all down to disposable income and how much one wishes to devote to one's plaything :)
No good moaning about it, them's the prices we just gotta get used to them or take up knitting  ;D

Ps Have you seen the price of wool / yarn recently. Wow!

« Last Edit: December 15, 2015, 10:58:48 AM by MalcolmAL »

Offline Newportnobby

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Re: Barely any bargains
« Reply #42 on: December 15, 2015, 11:21:59 AM »

But it is all relative !
If one is used to paying say 50 for a loco and then they become 150 it is a bit of a problem, but when your kids grow up and start buying their own toys then 150 for a loco will seem incredibly cheap.



That depends on when your children become 'grow up' and buy their own toys, Malcolm.
We still have 2 or 3 more years of the annual 20% price hike in Chinese wages so within that small time scale the price of the larger locos will be over 200 - especially as Farish seem to be applying the 20% regardless of how small the labour costs may be as a proportion of their overall cost.
Of course, retailers who have old stock have ramped up their prices accordingly, just as any supermarket probably buys in fags and booze before Budget time in the hope they can make a killing and, if anyone had any sense, they'd have purchased a load of stamps from the Post Office before their prices rocketed.
Second hand model prices have just followed suit.

Offline Jerry Howlett

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Re: Barely any bargains
« Reply #43 on: December 15, 2015, 11:24:37 AM »

That depends on when your children become 'grow up' and buy their own toys, Malcolm.
We still have 2 or 3 more years of the annual 20% price hike in Chinese wages so within that small time scale the price of the larger locos will be over 200 - especially as Farish seem to be applying the 20% regardless of how small the labour costs may be as a proportion of their overall cost.
Of course, retailers who have old stock have ramped up their prices accordingly, just as any supermarket probably buys in fags and booze before Budget time in the hope they can make a killing and, if anyone had any sense, they'd have purchased a load of stamps from the Post Office before their prices rocketed.
Second hand model prices have just followed suit.

Nobby ! That was so bleak the skies over Italy have just darkened.....  however true!
 
Some days its just not worth gnawing through the straps.

Offline MalcolmInN

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Re: Barely any bargains
« Reply #44 on: December 15, 2015, 11:41:53 AM »
Nobby ! That was so bleak the skies over Italy have just darkened
:laughabovepost:

The last time we did this I commented that the 20% worker's rise was a Red (see what I did there :) ) herring and more than offset by the dramatic fall ( twice) in the value/exchange rate of the Yuan.
In the future they may not be able to drop it quite so much so rapidly now that it is being tied in to the Dollar-Stirling etc.

But Einstein he still say "it is all relative"

 

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