Returning the duff stuff

[Les1952]

Today I made a 50-mle round trip by service bus (5 in all) and got a thorough soaking in order to return a Farish A2 to the dealer I bought it from, after it had run a total of six feet from new and shed a part of its valve gear.

This is the third new loco returned by me to its seller in the last 12 months.

Reading the A2 others have had the valve gear drop apart in the same way and have mended it - this on a £160 loco under warranty.  I also read that this fault became apparent in the B1.

The question I put up for discussion is this.  If we don't return new locos that are faulty are we letting the manufacturers off the hook?  Do they then get a false sense that their product is better than it really is?

Your comments please.
Les

[Roy L S]

Today I made a 50-mle round trip by service bus (5 in all) and got a thorough soaking in order to return a Farish A2 to the dealer I bought it from, after it had run a total of six feet from new and shed a part of its valve gear.

This is the third new loco returned by me to its seller in the last 12 months.

Reading the A2 others have had the valve gear drop apart in the same way and have mended it - this on a £160 loco under warranty.  I also read that this fault became apparent in the B1.

The question I put up for discussion is this.  If we don't return new locos that are faulty are we letting the manufacturers off the hook?  Do they then get a false sense that their product is better than it really is?

Your comments please.
Les

Possibly on occasion Les yes. As posted on the A2 thread, as bought mine could not cope with the relatively short freight I expected it to pull. Had it had the second tyred axle as a spare, no prob I would have swapped but no spares bag at all. As it was I "borrowed" my second A1's tender equipped with 4 traction tyres. Problem solved but at the expense of a previously perfectly serviceable A1 which will not now be back into traffic until I can get spares from Bachmann.

That aside though for balance, in my case anyway in recent times I have had few issues. None of my 7 B1s have given any problem at all, nor my J39s or 4Fs. My impulse purchased N Class is exquisite.

Fair to say as far as Dapol models go although fewer in number purchase wise B1s aside (two duffers out of two) in recent times anyway I have only had to go to DR Al to rescue my precious A3 "Salmon Trout" from a future in a siding as a static model and it is still going strong.

Of course it is quite another thing how good a shop's relationship is with the supplier. I would hope that any supplier worth it's salt will know that it has to do the right thing by it's retail network. If a release transpires to have issues the manufacture must in my view be honourable and do the right thing.

Roy

[MalcolmInN]

If we don't return new locos that are faulty are we letting the manufacturers off the hook? 

Your comments please.

I feel your pain !

Answer : Yes we would be if we did.

Comments : This will probably turn out to be as long a thread as all the others we have had ! But let that not put us off having another bash at it !!
My thinking at the mo. is that I suspect the manufacturers find it less costly to have us do the quality checks for them than pay for a fully staffed and qualified devoted department. ??

[PennineWagons]

Today I made a 50-mle round trip by service bus (5 in all) and got a thorough soaking in order to return a Farish A2 to the dealer I bought it from, after it had run a total of six feet from new and shed a part of its valve gear.

This is the third new loco returned by me to its seller in the last 12 months.

Reading the A2 others have had the valve gear drop apart in the same way and have mended it - this on a £160 loco under warranty.  I also read that this fault became apparent in the B1.

The question I put up for discussion is this.  If we don't return new locos that are faulty are we letting the manufacturers off the hook?  Do they then get a false sense that their product is better than it really is?

Your comments please.
Les

I think I'd have been inclined to post the loco off to Bachmann for repair under the warranty. I've done this on a couple of occasions, and both times the duff loco has come back in absolutely perfect running order. Admittedly you have to pay the postage, but it's probably cheaper than the petrol/bus fares/whatever involved in going back to the shop. And you can enclose a spleen-venting letter if you're so minded. I always do, it makes me feel much better. In fact if I'm buying a Farish loco nowadays then I mentally add £2.80 to the price to cover the postage, and start composing the letter while I'm still in the shop.
PW

[cragster101]

The question I put up for discussion is this.  If we don't return new locos that are faulty are we letting the manufacturers off the hook?

Yes. The price you pay is for a product which is working as advertised. They shouldn't receive any of your money if it doesn't. If it isn't returned then not only do you not get your money back then the manufacturers have no reason to suspect that individual product has a fault. If someone chooses not to return something faulty for whatever reason (some people here have enough knowledge to make it preferable to fix it themselves), then personally I think it would be a good idea for them to contact the manufacturer and seller to tell them that its faulty but they have decided to keep it, and what the fault is.

[austinbob]

If we don't return new locos that are faulty are we letting the manufacturers off the hook? 

Your comments please.

I feel your pain !

Answer : Yes we would be if we did.

Comments : This will probably turn out to be as long a thread as all the others we have had ! But let that not put us off having another bash at it !!
My thinking at the mo. is that I suspect the manufacturers find it less costly to have us do the quality checks for them than pay for a fully staffed and qualified devoted department. ??

MalcolmAl - I know everyone by now must know my feelings about locos that don't work out of the box - send em back. However - guilty feeling - I just received a beautiful Blue A1 Tornado perfect in every respect except - a buffer dropped out when I opened the pack.
OMG (no not OMG models resurrected!!) I must send it back!! I thought just give it a run to see how it works. Of course it was absolutely perfect. Now what do I do?? I always say I send locos back if they have an obvious fault. However, I'm afraid love took over and I couldn't send her back cos she was sooo.. perfect. So I disobeyed all my own rules about returns and - I REPAIRED THE BUFFER MYSELF WITH SUPERGLUE. OMG I can no longer look any one in the eyes (or equivalent in posting terms) after this. Buffer fixed - perfect loco - I don't know where to hide - broken my own rules!! Perhaps I should go see a priest or something. No - I'll just keep running in my beautiful Tornado.

[port perran]

If we don't return new locos that are faulty are we letting the manufacturers off the hook? 

Your comments please.

I feel your pain !

Answer : Yes we would be if we did.

Comments : This will probably turn out to be as long a thread as all the others we have had ! But let that not put us off having another bash at it !!
My thinking at the mo. is that I suspect the manufacturers find it less costly to have us do the quality checks for them than pay for a fully staffed and qualified devoted department. ??

MalcolmAl - I know everyone by now must know my feelings about locos that don't work out of the box - send em back. However - guilty feeling - I just received a beautiful Blue A1 Tornado perfect in every respect except - a buffer dropped out when I opened the pack.
OMG (no not OMG models resurrected!!) I must send it back!! I thought just give it a run to see how it works. Of course it was absolutely perfect. Now what do I do?? I always say I send locos back if they have an obvious fault. However, I'm afraid love took over and I couldn't send her back cos she was sooo.. perfect. So I disobeyed all my own rules about returns and - I REPAIRED THE BUFFER MYSELF WITH SUPERGLUE. OMG I can no longer look any one in the eyes (or equivalent in posting terms) after this. Buffer fixed - perfect loco - I don't know where to hide - broken my own rules!! Perhaps I should go see a priest or something. No - I'll just keep running in my beautiful Tornado.

You did the right thing to my mind. Enjoy running your loco.

[Roy L S]

Absolutely. a very sensible approach.

I would have done the same repair for something so minor and potentially just a result of being bumped in the post.

Regards

Roy

[MikeDunn]

I REPAIRED THE BUFFER MYSELF WITH SUPERGLUE. OMG I can no longer look any one in the eyes (or equivalent in posting terms) after this.

Pfffaw !  I am just so disgusted that you've let the side down .... How could you ? You have to resign from being a card-carrying member of the "I Won't Repair This As It Should Be Perfect" Club with immediate effect - and also pay the fine too !    No more money for anything else N Gauge related for the rest of the year for you, once you've finished the weekly instalments of the fine !

And yes - tongue is firmly in cheek for the above !  Enjoy your A1 

[austinbob]

I REPAIRED THE BUFFER MYSELF WITH SUPERGLUE. OMG I can no longer look any one in the eyes (or equivalent in posting terms) after this.

Pfffaw !  I am just so disgusted that you've let the side down .... How could you ? You have to resign from being a card-carrying member of the "I Won't Repair This As It Should Be Perfect" Club with immediate effect - and also pay the fine too !    No more money for anything else N Gauge related for the rest of the year for you, once you've finished the weekly instalments of the fine !

And yes - tongue is firmly in cheek for the above !  Enjoy your A1 

I feel so ashamed Mike for my minor digression from the 'You must send it back club'. I promise I will never do it again. Can I please have my 'I won't repair this as it should be perfect' club card reinstated? I feel so guilty now that I'm considering wrenching the buffer back out of my Tornado and sending the loco back. Ok. I've considered it and decided I'm still in love with my Tornado and couldn't possible part with her.
BUT I will be much harsher next time I get a faulty loco.. OH YES!!!

[MikeDunn]

Well .... oh alright - but ONLY because it's a classic LNER design !!!  If it had been one of the other three of the Big 4 I'd be less lenient - and if it hadn't been steam ... 



Says the man who's spent the day playing with LMS & GWR locos    But not a SR in sight ...

[MalcolmInN]

I'm afraid love took over and I couldn't send her back cos she was sooo.. perfect.

Perhaps I should go see a priest or something.

OMG indeed, what a dilemma ! I feel your pain too
Without even consulting us first !!! How dare you !
Where did I put my Clove of Garlic.

I feel so ashamed Mike for my minor digression from the 'You must send it back club'.

Minor, you call that minor, just you wait - we'll see what results when I call a plenary session of the NGF to determine your punishment.
Dear me first you break your own rule, then have the nerve to absolve yourself of your guilt, tsk tsk, oh just you wait , , ,


Hehee, nice one Bob, just goes to show, even the golden oldie subjects can raise new giggles 

Good giggles from Mike and everyone   

Oh, just a minute, news just in, ,
they have reached agreement,
you have to lay in supplies of beverage for all for when we come round your place to watch the results of your endevours. 

[Les1952]

I must confess a dropped/fallen out decorative part (such as a buffer) is a put-it-back job.  I've also pushed back into place a Dapol A4 slide bar that looked as if it was working loose.  However the A3 with transit damage that had dropped the slide bar out altogether went to DCC Supplies for a warranty fix rather than trek back to the shop.  Dapol are good in that respect- ring up and you get a freepost label to send it off.

Locos that won't run straight/at all or which drop working parts are a different matter.  I've rejected wobbly Terriers at Total N-Gauge and wobbly 4MTs at Hattons- also a locking up 4MT at Hattons shop. 

If I want to buy a knackered loco I'll buy NQPs from Dapol or stuff from the ultra-cheap bin on a Bachmann stand at the NGS AGM and take my chances.  Bargain of the lot was a Farish A4 for £8 from Bachmann.  Nothing wrong with it except it had a wooden block screwed to its underside.  If I pay retail price for a new loco I expect it to work and will send it back if it doesn't.

Significantly when Malcolm filled in the returns form to send the A2 onwards to Bachmann he marked it as "for credit note".  He won't accept exchanges or repaired locos from Bachmann.  He did point out Hornby by comparison ALWAYS send a new replacement when a dealer returns a loco.

All the very best
Les

[Roy L S]

Hi Les

I am a bit confused here. Surely the retailer's options are (as far as you are concerned) to offer you a refund, replacement or (if you agree) repair. Any model that were in the last set of circumstances returned to the manufacturer  by the retailer would be with the intent only of it being repaired and returned for you not for it to be returned for the retailer's general stock and passed off as "new"?

If a model goes back to the supplier following refund I would have taken it as read that any replacement stock if requested would be factory fresh and not an exchanged or repaired "second". If any retailer were provided with repairs or returns as "new" stock then surely it would be a misdescription of the product for the retailer to then sell it as brand new and not likely to be something any manufacturer would risk it's reputation by encouraging?

I would have taken it as read that any item that goes back to the manufacturer other than as a warranty repair for a customer would (if repairable) thereafter be confined to being sold as a return at such places as TINGS and be clearly described as such not re-released to the retailer network...

Are you saying that this is not the case?

Regards

Roy

[Newportnobby]

Bargain of the lot was a Farish A4 for £8 from Bachmann.  Nothing wrong with it except it had a wooden block screwed to its underside.