Are exhibitions making our hobby elitist

[tim-pelican]

But in practise, people don't seem to discover Kato until after they've started the hobby because it isn't marketed or promoted strongly by the retailers. I'm sure quite a few people start out in the hobby and then give up because they can't get the track to work properly, never realising there's this wonderful alternative to traditional Peco track out there.

100% agree. Not so much for the time I've spent on the track itself, but for the bane of my life that is point motors.

Thankfully I found Kato before I built the goods yard in the middle of my layout, so only the outside loops (six points) have caused me to curse and turn my back on the whole thing for days or weeks at a time.

Regards,
Tim.

[oreamnos]

As for the implication that we should all wear shirts and ties to satisfy the author's views of smart 

Actually, presentation matters. This hobby has a bit of a beard-full-of-breadcrumbs reputation, and part of that is that the people 'front of house', engaging with the public, are anoraky sorts of people and a few don't seem to even prioritise hygiene let alone sartorial presentation. I don't particularly like wearing a suit, but I understand that by wearing a suit I give off a certain image that I wouldn't give wearing M&S jeans and a tatty Millets shirt. I'm not saying layout operators should dress like a bank manager, but they should certainly look smart and be well groomed, if not for themselves then as ambassadors of the hobby.

Cheers, NeMo

Here in the States, the members of each club almost always wear a club uniform when participating in an exhibition.  In fact, sometimes we are required do so by the exhibition organizers.  The uniform usually amounts to the members wearing matching shirts that have had the club's logotype embroidered on the chest.  Club members are usually required to purchase such a shirt from the club upon being admitted.  As NeMo says, we are ambassadors of the hobby.  We are also ambassadors for our club.  While a smart uniform may not make anyone decide to join our club, it certainly can't hurt and it does conveys a sense that as a club, we have our act together.

I have to say that from what I'm reading here about UK exhibitions, they do seem a bit amateurish and ad hoc compared to what I'm used to in the US.  As for UK clubs, do they usually have club officers, dues, budgets, etc.?  Those are all the norm in the US.

Matt

[queensquare]

There is lots I could say but will restrict myself to a handful of points.

Firstly, whilst the visitors to a show do indeed pay good money to get in that pales into insignificance compared to the thousands of pounds and hours poured into exhibits by their owners. Not to mention the risks taken by carting their pride and joy across the country. All for free, often including taking the Friday off and with just basic expenses covered. We do it because it's a lot of fun and we love it but as Mike said, it's not a normal professional relationship between punter and exhibitor, it's a community, a shared experience.

Regarding engagement with the public, we operate from the front and anyone who has seen us at an exhibition, and there will be plenty as Highbury did over seventy shows before I retired it, will know Kim and I are constantly talking to spectators, answering questions and encouraging them to have a go. This interaction is one of my favourite aspects of exhibiting, despite usually running out of voice toward the end of the day!


Finally I'm not entirely comfortable with this notion that we are just there for a minute or so entertainment in between shopping at the various traders. I exhibit because I enjoy it and to showcase the hobby, if that entertains as well then all well and good. But if all you want is action and entertainment then hire a juggler or a performing seal!

By the way Paddy, I'm with you, I love the Dublo three rail.

Jerry

[Oldman]

Just my opinion
As an infrequent visitor to exhibitions - to date always as a paying visitor, I have always looked at the traders before I have looked at the layouts.
Because I have usually modelled slightly more freelance or obscure railways than most I like to look for small details that inspire me to try something different.
I like to see trains that run but also love to see a layout operator that interacts with visitors.
I will be attending ExpoNG at Swanley in October with an entry in one of their competitions - Something Never done before apart from a couple of entries in online competitions on this forum.
I have also built a diorama that will shuttle an Autorail up and down a single track in Zm scale(1/220 on 3mm T Gauge Track) which has been offered to show a new take on modelling in small scales. Awaiting confirmation that this will be exhibited as well.

[NeMo]

Here in the States, the members of each club almost always wear a club uniform when participating in an exhibition.  In fact, sometimes we are required do so by the exhibition organizers.  The uniform usually amounts to the members wearing matching shirts that have had the club's logotype embroidered on the chest.

I've had a fair bit to do with tropical fish clubs in the US, and they also have club shirts. Of course the problem in the UK is that there's a hostility to professionalism among some, who prefer the 'take me as you find me' approach to life. While I understand that way of thinking, I do believe the US approach is more coherent and inviting.

Finally I'm not entirely comfortable with this notion that we are just there for a minute or so entertainment in between shopping at the various traders. I exhibit because I enjoy it and to showcase the hobby, if that entertains as well then all well and good. But if all you want is action and entertainment then hire a juggler or a performing seal!

You might not like it, but it is the reality for many. Think about a busy show, and do people really have twenty minutes to examine a layout properly? Especially one with big crowds and lots of pushing?

I was at a show on Sunday in Minehead, had half an hour there while the wife and baby were off doing something else. So very much a quick nip in to see what was up. That was an extreme situation, but as a married man with a young baby, realistically an hour at a show is what I'll get before I need to get on with other stuff. If I'm going to stick with a layout for more than cursory examination, it has to engage me quickly, otherwise I'm going to push off to the traders to see what's what.

I'm sure others can spend the whole afternoon soaking in the experience, and before I got married, I certainly would try. But nowadays model trains are just one of many demands on my life. Among those demands are my job that allows me to spend a couple hundred a month on toy trains, so absolutely busy working people are the ones you need to attract into this wonderful hobby.

Let's be clear: I'm not saying dumb down the hobby. But when you're at an exhibition, bear in mind you're not posing for photographers from Railway Modeller but trying to catch the attention of a steady stream of people who may have limited time. There are some layouts that look good and get the activity level right. Rusbury Basin, Horseley Fields, Elcot Road and Dewsbury Midland are ones that spring to mind.

Cheers, NeMo

[oreamnos]

The aspirational layouts which inspire some might be completely discouraging to somebody else. 

Hi Matt

I find this difficult to understand - it smacks of defeatism (or even dare I say it an unwillingness to learn/practice etc).

Cheers, Mike

That's not how it's meant.  I'm trying to say that different members of the public who come to show will be inspired by different layouts on display.  Someone who has never made a model railway might very well see something that looks very poor to modellers and think, "I could do that, too!"  And more power to them, I say.

Aspiration has different degrees.  I'm not saying people shouldn't learn new skills.  But if (for example) ready to plant buildings and a circle of Unitrack makes someone feel like they've become a modeler, I think that is fantastic.  As Jerry said, this is a big church.

Matt

[MikeDunn]

Firstly, whilst the visitors to a show do indeed pay good money to get in

Yes we do. And it increases with the prominence of the exhibition (look at the entry prices of Warley, for example).  I've given up attending those large shows in the east of England, not just for the expense of getting there but the expense of getting inside.

that pales into insignificance compared to the thousands of pounds and hours poured into exhibits by their owners. Not to mention the risks taken by carting their pride and joy across the country.

That's their choice ... no-one forces them, they want to show the layout off.

I'm not saying this is bad (far from it) but they are getting paid to be there ... and the people who fund that (Joe Public) expect more than a static landscape with a grumpy old git bloke answering polite questions with grunts at best !  OK, maybe he's been asked 55 times in the past hour "is anything going to move soon ?" but that surely shows a problem with what they are doing ?

And before you ask, yes I am intending to offer my layout (when I finish it) to local shows ... and no, I won't be expecting to get paid for it !  A contribution to the fuel costs would be helpful, but I wouldn't expect anything more.

At large shows - layouts are the entertainment between stalls.  Sorry if that offends you but face facts - that's what they are, just like the 1:1 engine Warley brings in each year.  Only at small shows, with maybe a handful of local stalls at best, are the layouts the main attraction.  But you pay a damn sight less at those, and have much lower expectations as a result.

Mike

[bridgiesimon]

I'm not saying this is bad (far from it) but they are getting paid to be there ...

Sorry not correct, at most exhibitors are paid their expenses for fuel or in some cases vehicle hire certainly not 'paid to be there'

best wishes
Simon

[MikeDunn]

Sorry not correct, at most exhibitors are paid their expenses for fuel or in some cases vehicle hire certainly

Where did I say "lots of money" ?  As you admit, they are getting paid ...

[Graham Walters]

Just like to add to this that our club pays exhibitors expenses, puts them up in B & B, and provides with lunch on both days, as well as tea and coffee.

The trade frontage has to balance the books against layouts, they are the ones who indirectly pay for the layouts and the hire of the halls, we hope that the entrance fee is profit.

Dress wise I've seen everything from the manky jeans & three day worn T-Shirt, to the collar & tie, and I know which one gives me a better impression, the least I would expect is smart casual and a co-ordination of club/layout/society shirt.

Aspiration wise I personally think that the degree of detail and prototypical running of trains can and does put a lot of people off the hobby, well if not the hobby, then joining a club because all they see is a pristine layout. We are actually this year putting on show a "work in progress" layout, so that we can at least give the public an idea of what goes on at a club night, I feel it is a step in the right direction, given that the bloke who hand built the track had never done it before.... and yes it does work !

[Oldman]

Regarding payment to exhibitors in my case If I don't have to pay to get in, and a complimentary drink and possibly a snack during the day is provided then I would be happy because I am trying to promote a hobby that others hopefully will enjoy.

[MikeDunn]

Just like to add to this that our club pays exhibitors expenses, puts them up in B & B, and provides with lunch on both days, as well as tea and coffee.

And a big  to you guys.  A group I'm with gets basic expenses for 2 operators (there's normally 4 ...) and is expected to to fund their own tea/coffee ...

We are actually this year putting on show a "work in progress" layout, so that we can at least give the public an idea of what goes on at a club night, I feel it is a step in the right direction, given that the bloke who hand built the track had never done it before.... and yes it does work !

And that kind of layout (as seen by the German layout @ TINGS these past few years) gets more of my attention !  You can move from a bare board, through outline landscaping, through bare landscaping, to finished area & see how they did it ...   Always useful for those of us without a layout !

[PLD]

be out from behind the layout amongst the public.

Arrgh - one of by pet hates as both an exhibitor - no escape from those who are economic with the soap; and as a viewer - I want to see the layout and the trains, not the back of the operator wandering up and down in front of me 

[PLD]

that pales into insignificance compared to the thousands of pounds and hours poured into exhibits by their owners. Not to mention the risks taken by carting their pride and joy across the country.

That's their choice ... no-one forces them, they want to show the layout off.

But if they didn't what the heck do you think you would see for your money at exhibitions  

The reality is yes, exhibitors do receive payment to cover (most of) their expenses in attending, but overall in most cases they will more likely be slightly out of pocket by the end of the weekend...

And it increases with the prominence of the exhibition (look at the entry prices of Warley, for example).

At large shows - layouts are the entertainment between stalls.  Sorry if that offends you but face facts - that's what they are, just like the 1:1 engine Warley brings in each year.
Mike

Please do not Tar all shows with the Warley Brush...

Those large shows are aimed at a lowest common denominator market who are attracted more by quantity than quality. It is quite sad to read that the traders are a bigger attraction than the layouts, but having witnessed the spectacle of the stampede for the Bachmann stand I shouldn't be surprised (makes a herd of wilderbeeste look civilised) - from your postings in this thread you should fit in perfectly...

[Sprintex]

be out from behind the layout amongst the public.

Arrgh - one of by pet hates as both an exhibitor - no escape from those who are economic with the soap; and as a viewer - I want to see the layout and the trains, not the back of the operator wandering up and down in front of me 

Totally agree- operators belong behind the layout otherwise they get in the way

As for the layouts being second to the traders it just shows that we're all different in our outlook and expectations. I go to shows almost exclusively to look at layouts, I may look at trade stands if there's something I particularly want, and only then if there's time to kill after watching trains


Paul