Braking the LMS inspection saloon

Richey1977 · July 01, 2015, 04:45:16 PM

I've always fancied the Farish inspection saloons, and I got one just recently on eBay.

My layout will be a modern era setting, but a bit vague on what sort of line it is - there'll probably be some local DMU service, a bit of freight, and I've also got a Farish 3F Jinty for a preserved / charter train.

My question is - if I run the inspection saloon with the 3F, or even a preserved BR diesel, do I need a brake vehicle as well?

Thanks!

Jerry Howlett · July 01, 2015, 05:00:42 PM

No these were fitted with a guards operated handbrake as well as a manual vacuum brake applicator and air brake as they got older. They were frequently found "touring" with a just a loco, and not as part of a train. Oh and they could also preceed the loco like an auto trailer.

Jerry

Ben A · July 01, 2015, 05:14:52 PM

Hi Richey,

If you're modelling a preserved line you can run pretty much what you want, with the proviso that no trains go over 20mph.

If you're running on the mainline then only steam locomotives can run without a yellow panel and inspection saloons would need one to lead the train, though I have a feeling they are barred from being pushed anyway nowadays.

Cheers

Ben A.

portland-docks · July 01, 2015, 09:25:34 PM

Quote from: Ben A on July 01, 2015, 05:14:52 PM

Hi Richey,

If you're modelling a preserved line you can run pretty much what you want, with the proviso that no trains go over 20mph.

If you're running on the mainline then only steam locomotives can run without a yellow panel and inspection saloons would need one to lead the train, though I have a feeling they are barred from being pushed anyway nowadays.

Cheers

Ben A.

inspection saloons are actually still used in todays age, a few months back i saw one coming out of newcastle central, with the class 37 pushing and a full crowd in the saloon!

Ben A · July 02, 2015, 01:02:39 AM

Hello Portland-docks,

I stand corrected!

Though for avoidance of doubt can I ask that you're sure it was an LMS saloon you saw, and not Caroline, the former SR saloon...?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/975025_Caroline

I genuinely did not realise any LMS ones were still active on the main line, and certainly not propelled.

Cheers

Ben A.

portland-docks · July 02, 2015, 01:04:23 AM

It did look more like an lms saloon but i may stand corrected at that one!

colpatben · July 02, 2015, 08:16:15 AM

Quote from: Ben A on July 02, 2015, 01:02:39 AM

I genuinely did not realise any LMS ones were still active on the main line, and certainly not propelled.

Don't you just love that. In correct railway speak 'Propelled' not pushed.

GrahamB · July 02, 2015, 11:09:01 AM

Quote from: Ben A on July 01, 2015, 05:14:52 PM

................If you're modelling a preserved line you can run pretty much what you want, with the proviso that no trains go over 20mph........................

The limit for most heritage lines is 25mph.

portland-docks · July 02, 2015, 06:02:20 PM

Quote from: GrahamB on July 02, 2015, 11:09:01 AM
Quote from: Ben A on July 01, 2015, 05:14:52 PM

................If you're modelling a preserved line you can run pretty much what you want, with the proviso that no trains go over 20mph........................
The limit for most heritage lines is 25mph.

Officially it is

*whistles and walks away*

GrahamB · July 03, 2015, 08:30:45 AM

Quote from: portland-docks on July 02, 2015, 06:02:20 PM
Officially it is *whistles and walks away*

We take the matter of speeding drivers very seriously. Some railways have received permission to run at faster speeds. From memory (I could be mistaken), one railway obtained permission to run at up to 75mph for the testing of some new trains for the main network.

robert shrives · July 03, 2015, 09:24:39 AM

FWIW there is a 3D print model of Caroline if you want to do the Southern saloon - its ex Hastings so is slab sided and comes with a chassis unit and looks the part with a DRS 37/4

Robert

portland-docks · July 03, 2015, 10:31:11 AM

Quote from: GrahamB on July 03, 2015, 08:30:45 AM
Quote from: portland-docks on July 02, 2015, 06:02:20 PM
Officially it is *whistles and walks away*
We take the matter of speeding drivers very seriously. Some railways have received permission to run at faster speeds. From memory (I could be mistaken), one railway obtained permission to run at up to 75mph for the testing of some new trains for the main network.

Which railway is it you refer to graham?

Richey1977 · July 03, 2015, 11:16:29 AM

thanks all for your replies.

So... (bear with me for more questions) ... how many vehicles could the saloon provide brake power for? If I stick another (non-braked) coach in the train, will it have sufficient brake? Or should the additional coach be a brake coach?

Cheers.

GrahamB · July 03, 2015, 11:40:50 AM

Quote from: portland-docks on July 03, 2015, 10:31:11 AM
Quote from: GrahamB on July 03, 2015, 08:30:45 AM
Quote from: portland-docks on July 02, 2015, 06:02:20 PM
Officially it is *whistles and walks away*
We take the matter of speeding drivers very seriously. Some railways have received permission to run at faster speeds. From memory (I could be mistaken), one railway obtained permission to run at up to 75mph for the testing of some new trains for the main network.

Which railway is it you refer to graham?

PM sent as I think we're drifting off topic and I don't want my legs slapped

Lankyman · July 03, 2015, 09:40:56 PM

Quote from: Richey1977 on July 03, 2015, 11:16:29 AM
thanks all for your replies.

So... (bear with me for more questions) ... how many vehicles could the saloon provide brake power for? If I stick another (non-braked) coach in the train, will it have sufficient brake? Or should the additional coach be a brake coach?

Cheers.

If in use as an Inspection saloon, it would never (someone prove me wrong) have any other vehicles in the train, only the loco and the saloon. The reason why it was often propelled is because the Engineers liked to be able to see ahead of the train. It is for this reason that an automatic brake valve and warning horn was provided at each end. When propelling a person qualified to operate such was required to be incharge at the leading end (although I remember a certain Senior Operations Manager performing this task when the saloon was "borrowed" from the Engineers Department to hold an accident inquiry somewher on the Settle and Calrlisle line and the saloon had to return to Preston.

The only time a saloon would be seen attached to other vehicles if it was in transit somewhere as an empty vehicle, usually to a works for overhaul. Thus the saloon woud never have to provide brake power for any other vehicle.

Ron