Plan plan plan?

[D1042 Western Princess]

I'm probably a lone voice here but yes, by all means plan, plan and plan again. However I use anything but a computer programme; much easier just to draw a rough 12" square grid pattern on the back of an envelope and draw the plan onto that.
I find it works, can be done anywhere and is far more flexible and quicker than computers!
But, as I say, I am probably alone in this these days.
But however much I plan, on paper or computer, I usually change something when it comes to track laying.

I use AnyRail for my track planning. BUT... I must say it is sometimes very annoying when you want to do a slight modification, which you intuitively know will work, but the software just will not allow you modify the plan the way you want to!! Very frustrating.
I guess that you should really treat track planning software as a tool rather than a means to an end. Sometimes it helps to use software sometimes it doesn't.

My point exactly. Also getting just the right angle of curve using flexitrack can be awkward on a computer, but easy by hand.

[Sprintex]

Although I've used Anyrail to get ideas for layouts and play around with track plans I prefer to plan 1:1 to get a real feel for how it will look. This is what I did with my current layout:-

Having bought the boards I planned the entire thing out on the lounge floor using Peco point templates, a pencil, a couple of trains and vehicles for sizing, and a full-size cardboard template of the station I wanted to fit on one board:-





Once happy with it I went over it in marker pen as you can see, although a couple of things did change along the way once construction started. All this was long before I discovered track-planning software so I had to reverse-plan in Anyrail later on


Paul

[martink]

I find a mix of techniques works best, since no single approach does everything perfectly.   

I start the basic planning with pen and paper,  freehand, using a 6" grid for N - just the right size for a loco, coach, point or a half radius for a minimum curve.  Then Anyrail is great for figuring out complex pointwork and proving that all fits (and can be done with the 50-track-piece free version).  After that, draw it out full size on large sheets of paper stuck down to a table or the baseboard (you can get rolls of 12' x 2'6" gaming paper with 1" squares for a few dollars).  Then finish up with whatever real track, point templates, buildings, vehicles, etc. you have placed on the full size version to really get a good picture. 

And for the last couple of layouts, I didn't place the internal framing timbers until after the trackplan and point positions had been finalised and drawn onto the baseboard.  And still managed to get one point motor wrong.  Sigh.

[D1042 Western Princess]

   We've all been there, or someplace very like it!

[Webbo]

Each to his/her own with this one I think.

I started off with a computer program called 3D Planit and found that this was much harder than using a pencil, paper, and an eraser (rubber). From limited knowledge of it al reading the experiences of posters on this and other forumsl, it seems to me that the computer planning programs work well with set track, but my layout has all connections between points as flex track and the software proved to be quite awkward and not versatile.  So in my case, I went from a pencilled A4 track plan to a full size paper plan from which the baseboard and everything else were designed. On the full size plan I still used the pencil and eraser to good effect. 

Webbo

[PostModN66]

Each to his/her own with this one I think.

I started off with a computer program called 3D Planit and found that this was much harder than using a pencil, paper, and an eraser (rubber). From limited knowledge of it al reading the experiences of posters on this and other forumsl, it seems to me that the computer planning programs work well with set track, but my layout has all connections between points as flex track and the software proved to be quite awkward and not versatile.  So in my case, I went from a pencilled A4 track plan to a full size paper plan from which the baseboard and everything else were designed. On the full size plan I still used the pencil and eraser to good effect. 

Webbo

Hi Webbo, you're quite right, each to his own, but just for the record I find AnyRail pretty good for flex track, and I always plan track layouts exactly before track laying.

Cheers Jon 

[Basinga]

I can't really say I planned mine 100% beforehand but it's going ok so far.

I started by measuring out the space I had to play with and went to my local Wickes to see what boards they have. After buying three 4x2 chipboards, I went home and opened up Anyrail. This software has a tool for drawing shapes, so I simply made 3 rectangles the same size as my boards, arranged them in an L shape and started putting track over the shapes.

While the trackplan was forming, I made a frame for the baseboards and built the legs. They weren't thoroughly planned beforehand but I was careful to be sure the legs and frames on each section didn't interfere with other sections when they were put together. I also used large bolts to hold the legs on and hold the sections together which could be easily dis-assembled should the layout ever need to be moved.
Granted, it looks a bit bodged, but it's sturdy, level and doesn't rock or creek when I lean on it.

Once I was happy with a plan, I got a few pieces of track and drew around them with a pencil to form an outline of the trackplan on the baseboards. As my build thread shows, this is when I realised problems with the plan and made adjustments.

One thing I will say is that planning software is good for visualising your ideas and developing your plans, but ultimately, before gluing down any track, I strongly recommend drawing an outline using the actual track on your baseboards to make sure it all fits and works and that you're happy with it.

[PostModN66]

Just to illustrate how far you can go with using software to visualise the layout - if you want to....

Here is a technique where I have exported a .jpg from Anyrail into Sketchup, and built the layout onto it.

This future layout is based around the "Burgstadt" station (a nostalgia trip, another story...) so I have built an accurate though not detailed Sketchup model of the station and used this within the bigger layout model.



This, would you believe is an early version of Horseblock Lane; 50 or so iterations before the final plan, (which tells another story about plan many, cut once).  This is "opposite hand" - it needed to be flipped to suit the 3 way points Neal eventually used.



By the way, these are pretty simple SketchUp models - I have seen much, much more detailed ones on this forum.

These are just for interest by the way; I'm not trying to convert anyone. Maybe we should have Rule 2 - "It's my layout so I will design it how I want".

Cheers  Jon 

[FeelixTC]

If it wasn't for planning I wouldn't be a railway modeller, rather just an onlooker.

[D1042 Western Princess]

Just to illustrate how far you can go with using software to visualise the layout - if you want to....

Here is a technique where I have exported a .jpg from Anyrail into Sketchup, and built the layout onto it.

This future layout is based around the "Burgstadt" station (a nostalgia trip, another story...) so I have built an accurate though not detailed Sketchup model of the station and used this within the bigger layout model.



This, would you believe is an early version of Horseblock Lane; 50 or so iterations before the final plan, (which tells another story about plan many, cut once).  This is "opposite hand" - it needed to be flipped to suit the 3 way points Neal eventually used.



By the way, these are pretty simple SketchUp models - I have seen much, much more detailed ones on this forum.

These are just for interest by the way; I'm not trying to convert anyone. Maybe we should have Rule 2 - "It's my layout so I will design it how I want".

Cheers  Jon 

Most impressive Jon, but as Tank can verify I have trouble just replying to a simple post here sometimes, as I did over his 'Chris Green' thread.
But I give you an unreserved 'thumbs up'  over Rule Two.

[CarriageShed]

I'm building my first layout and I wondered how many of you have drawn up detailed & scaled plans of your layout before even purchasing a single piece of track or base?

AnyRail here too. I spent almost a full year planning before I even purchased the wood for building. In that time the plan underwent a good number of minor modifications and important tweaks that (eventually) will make for much better operations that the original version.

You can even use the plan to work out where the baseboard support structure will go, and avoid placing struts underneath points. I used Photoshop to overlay the semi-transparent track plan on the support plan, and was able to tweak the supports to get them out of the way.

Unknowingly I located a set of turnouts above a baseboard strengthening strut, which meant I couldn't locate the motor underneath it.

Having said that, a last-minute amendment resulted in some points being located over the support struts (*cough* whoops!). The solution was to install cranks - a strip of brass, for instance, linked to the tie bar on the points at one end and to the points motor at the other end. I've found that there's a solution to almost any problem. You just have to research it or have someone very wise to whisper the answer into your ear.

[daveg]

' .... You just have to research it or have someone very wise to whisper the answer into your ear.'

How right you are, Pete and more often then not, the whisper's from someone on the NGF!



Dave G

[Webbo]

Is there really such a major problem with point motors located above support struts? In my case, my support struts are 1x4s and these can stand a 1.5" deep notch to take a Peco point motor no worries. If you really want to ensure the maintenance of structural strength through the strut after it has been notched, one way is to screw the baseboard to the strut on either side of the notch (preferred) or to reinforce the strut below the notch (messier).

I have found that are really good way of cutting notches through baseboards and struts even after they have been installed is the multifunction tool shown in the following:

http://www.bosch-do-it.com.au/au/en/diy/power-tools/c203707/p116410/multifunction-tools/pmf-180-e.html

I'm not endorsing Bosch in particular as I know that there are other makes of these tools as well. Great tool for making cuts in tight situations elsewhere as well.

Webbo

[CarriageShed]

How right you are, Pete and more often then not, the whisper's from someone on the NGF!

Exactly, Dave. Although in my case that's 50% true. In terms of layout construction the other 50% is provided by an ex-telephone engineer who is a complete obsessive about automated layouts.

Is there really such a major problem with point motors located above support struts? In my case, my support struts are 1x4s and these can stand a 1.5" deep notch to take a Peco point motor no worries.

Do you really want to be chopping bits out of your support struts though? The odd one or two might be okay, but beware the woodworm effect.

[daveg]

I suspect that with Webbo using 4" deep battens, a slice out of that wouldn't have too much affect.

Certainly wouldn't want to try that on my 'flimsy' 2"x1". Drilled holes for cables is risky enough!

As done by Pete, I looked at my AnyRail plan to check are the points were in relation to where battens should probably go. I cheated by just adding red lines over a copy (not original) of the plan to show the positions.

I have now made the executive decision to go Wire in Tube and will surface mount the wires so avoiding the battens issue. I will however have to allow for the depth of the tube and will have to make 'topside' arrangements to suit.

Dave G