Brake van/coach for Pullman rakes

[Newportnobby]

Thanks very much for that, Matt.
I just happen to have 3 x Farish 0656 Pullman brakes which I was going to sell but will hang on to 'em now.

[Caz]

What a great answer Karhedron, that's why this forum is so great, we have some really knowledgeable people on here.   

[austinbob]

The SR usually used Mk1 BGs (in Choc/cream, Maroon, Green and Blue/grey). However their trains like the Bournemouth Belle used the older Poole-era Pullman coaches rather than the current BachFar Mk1 Pullmans.

The MetCam Pullmans were built in 1960 and used mainly on the Midland and Eastern Regions. Some of the catering vehicles were loaned to the western Region and found their way into the Wells Fargo set (the set that was used as a replacement if one of the Blue Pullmans was unavailable).

If you are modelling the MR/ER (where these vehicles were most common) then the normal practice was to have one of the older 1928 brake-end vehicles (Poole-Farish vintage) at each end of the rake. This lasted until the mid 60s and you can see examples of this below.
Following the withdrawal of the old Pullman brakes, a couple of solutions were used. Sometimes a Mk1 BG in Maroon was added (the same practice as the SR).

Thank you so much Karhedron. I bought a Farish Chocolate and Cream BG Mk 1 today and KGB models just happened to have two old Farish Pullman Brake ends as per your photos so I ordered those today. All set for most eventualities now. I just need to wait the year, 2 years - whatever - for my preordered new Farish Pullman coaches to be delivered!!!
Thanks again.

[dodger]

Bob and Sue's models in Dibden Pirlieu had some Poole Pullmans including Brakes last week.

Dodger

[austinbob]

Bob and Sue's models in Dibden Pirlieu had some Poole Pullmans including Brakes last week.

Dodger

Thanks Dodger but the deal is done with kgb models

[RichardBattersby]

Does the Farish Collectors Club Pullman Brake fit the white roofed Pullmans Farish have made? I've just joined and really fancy it but it is grey roofed so assume it doesn't fit with the white tops. Is it too late in period?

http://bachmann-collectorsclub.co.uk/featured-products/n-scale-br-mk1-bck-sloa-pullman-coach-car-no-355.html

[talisman56]

I don't think anyone has mentioned that the Pullman trains often incorporated a Pup coach - corresponding body style but 6 wheel chassis not bogie.

Some years ago I had a commission to produce the CAD drawings for one of these in 4mm scale.  I probably still have these if anyone's interested.

LBSC wasn't really my thing so am struggling to recall what a Pup's function was in a train.  Perhaps someone here can throw more light?

Adrian

According to this article the pups were luggage vans.
http://scm.pastfinders.org/scm_29_pullman.htm

I thought the Bluebell Pullman Stove R was done as an 'in the style of' and there was never a real Stove R in Pullman livery. It's effectively the Protoype for the NGS one.

But the article also says that the Pullman train was lit and heated by electricity - the 'Pup's also contained generators which were driven by belts attached one of the axles of the vehicle...

[Karhedron]

Does the Farish Collectors Club Pullman Brake fit the white roofed Pullmans Farish have made? I've just joined and really fancy it but it is grey roofed so assume it doesn't fit with the white tops. Is it too late in period?

In practice the Mk1 Pullmans seem to have received grey roofs fairly early in their lives. Whether this was a deliberate painting decision or simply the accumulation of soot/diesel deposits, I do not know. Look at these photos from the 60s and you will see they are mostly grey-roofed. The first shot even includes the Mk1 BCK upon which the special is based.

[talisman56]

I believe the grey roof was part of a livery change made about the same time the Pullman Crest was redesigned (stretched) at the turn of the 60s. Certainly there were more grey-roofed Pullmans than (dirty) white ones when I was frequenting platform ends in the 60s...

[RichardBattersby]

Does the Farish Collectors Club Pullman Brake fit the white roofed Pullmans Farish have made? I've just joined and really fancy it but it is grey roofed so assume it doesn't fit with the white tops. Is it too late in period?

In practice the Mk1 Pullmans seem to have received grey roofs fairly early in their lives. Whether this was a deliberate painting decision or simply the accumulation of soot/diesel deposits, I do not know. Look at these photos from the 60s and you will see they are mostly grey-roofed. The first shot even includes the Mk1 BCK upon which the special is based.

Thank you for that. Interesting pics. So it presumably ran with white roof carriages at some point and therefore OK to run with my rake?

[Karhedron]

Does the Farish Collectors Club Pullman Brake fit the white roofed Pullmans Farish have made? I've just joined and really fancy it but it is grey roofed so assume it doesn't fit with the white tops. Is it too late in period?

In practice the Mk1 Pullmans seem to have received grey roofs fairly early in their lives. Whether this was a deliberate painting decision or simply the accumulation of soot/diesel deposits, I do not know. Look at these photos from the 60s and you will see they are mostly grey-roofed. The first shot even includes the Mk1 BCK upon which the special is based.

Thank you for that. Interesting pics. So it presumably ran with white roof carriages at some point and therefore OK to run with my rake?

Not sure when it recieved Pullman livery but it  certainly did later on for Railtour duty.

[RichardBattersby]

Does the Farish Collectors Club Pullman Brake fit the white roofed Pullmans Farish have made? I've just joined and really fancy it but it is grey roofed so assume it doesn't fit with the white tops. Is it too late in period?

In practice the Mk1 Pullmans seem to have received grey roofs fairly early in their lives. Whether this was a deliberate painting decision or simply the accumulation of soot/diesel deposits, I do not know. Look at these photos from the 60s and you will see they are mostly grey-roofed. The first shot even includes the Mk1 BCK upon which the special is based.

Thank you for that. Interesting pics. So it presumably ran with white roof carriages at some point and therefore OK to run with my rake?

Not sure when it recieved Pullman livery but it  certainly did later on.

Great picture! Thank you! Going to order one I think!

[Dr Al]

Matt, do you know when the earlier Pullman brakes were withdrawn? All the pics show Diesel haulage implying it was fairly late on and that most steam haulage would therefore have been with the 1928 Pullman brakes, rather than any Mk1 brakes/BGs?

Cheers,
Alan

[Karhedron]

I believe the grey roof was part of a livery change made about the same time the Pullman Crest was redesigned (stretched) at the turn of the 60s. Certainly there were more grey-roofed Pullmans than (dirty) white ones when I was frequenting platform ends in the 60s...

Possibly it coincided with the incorporation of Pullman services into BR in 1962. Not conclusive but seems to fit the evidence.

[Karhedron]

Matt, do you know when the earlier Pullman brakes were withdrawn? All the pics show Diesel haulage implying it was fairly late on and that most steam haulage would therefore have been with the 1928 Pullman brakes, rather than any Mk1 brakes/BGs?

The 1928 brake-ends were withdrawn in 1966 so these vehicles would have been available for use almost until the end of steam. However the use of Mk1 BGs began before the withdrawal of the pullman brakes in response to demand for additional luggage space.

The Bournemouth Belle in particular often ran MK1 BGs as well as pullman brake-end coaches to meet this need. Here is one of the "kidnapped" western BGs as part of the Bournemouth Belle set in 1965.