UK power regulations - potential safety issue

Luke Piewalker · January 05, 2015, 06:22:05 PM

Fpr clarity (or to confuse matters) I'll add some pictures.

The issue, as I understand it, is that this:

is fine. However you can't fit this:

into such a converter

Ancient Hermit · January 05, 2015, 07:02:41 PM

Quote from: Luke Piewalker on January 05, 2015, 06:22:05 PM
Fpr clarity (or to confuse matters) I'll add some pictures.

The issue, as I understand it, is that this:

is fine. However you can't fit this:

into such a converter

Yes, that is pretty much what it boils down to.

But also the act of a retailer selling anything with a foreign plug today requires them to supply the means to adapt it, and that should be correctly fitted by them at the time of the sale. At least that's how the central govt trading standards call handler put it to me. Doing otherwise was seen as a criminal act so they explained. The bottom line from them that under no circumstances should I attempt to use it. It seemed fair enough advice to me given all the other stuff they explained.

Thanks for posting those pics I was not able!

dodger · January 05, 2015, 07:30:02 PM

Quote from: Pengi on January 05, 2015, 03:46:27 PM
What is the likelihood of it coming to grief and burning the house down? I am assuming that you would not have the system running 24/7 and that you would be in attendance whilst it was up and running - and maybe able to turn off the electricity if things did go bang?

If I am being dense and have missed the point then I apologise

I quite agree with you there. Better still use a proper transformer power supply and not the cheap and nasty wall mounted things we are so often forced to use these days.

Dodger

lil chris · January 05, 2015, 08:22:37 PM

My original NCE Powercab came with a two pin plug and the requirement for a shaver adapter. But last year I bought a SB5 Smart booster upgrade and that came with a std UK 3 pin plug. Whether Digitrains changed the plug I am not sure, but it is easy enough to swap the two pin for a std UK 3 pin with appropiate fuse.

OwL · January 05, 2015, 10:40:27 PM

I do see the point in the OP's thread, but i think for many folk the level of technical 'spiel' have left many with sore heads through too much head scratching.

For people to be aware of the issue is good but i think it would be a great idea to empthasise the point that anyone using model rail electrical power supplies/transformers should stick only to UK conformed/certified equipment.
This would eliminate any potential safety concerns and future insurance payout worries.

If in doubt when it comes to electrical appliances dont use it, if your happy using non UK conformed/certified kit then fine.....but its your responsibility if anything went wrong

DELETED · January 07, 2015, 01:56:56 AM

I have seen countless times folk using shaver adapters for use for anything other and that's dangerous -I've seen them melted and burned so many times. I have seen so many folk bypass the warnings on them and come to me asking what went wrong -they're not meant for anything other than shavers. My recollection is even that there's a mm or so difference in the pin spacing to stop folk putting other things in there -but they'll still push fit easy-eough. Likewise mobile phone chargers are not meant to be PSU's -yet they are recommended as such everywhere.

A little common sense is required. As someone who spent 2 years getting a huge system CE marked into industry once I also know that I would have preferred the good old days of the kite mark to show some aspects were actually tested safe. Alas the brussel sprouts now put too much on the end user to free up trade. At the end of the day, I can think of very few electrical products sold now which don't have the caveat on them that they must not be left unsupervised.

I can see the point of the OP -but not sure where the level of alarm comes from.

QuoteMy original NCE Powercab came with a two pin plug and the requirement for a shaver adapter. But last year I bought a SB5 Smart booster upgrade and that came with a std UK 3 pin plug. Whether Digitrains changed the plug I am not sure, but it is easy enough to swap the two pin for a std UK 3 pin with appropiate fuse.

....My Powercab came "UK" version with a 3 pin 240v wall-wart PSU -ironically the same one not suited for the Kato controller but always works fine for me on the cab. Mind you, I chose my cab from a UK supplier so there was no PSU problems. -Shaver adapter NO!!!!!!, USE A PROPER ADAPTER PLEASE.

lil chris · January 07, 2015, 10:16:39 PM

I have just come to check out my Powercab adapter, I have not used it for a while now I am using the Booster instead. You can not fit a 3 pin plug its a American 2 pin adapter, you have to use it with the shaver adapter which I think was supplied,it does have a fuse..I only need it occasionally when I need to use the program track, I might replace it sometime in the future.

Ancient Hermit · January 07, 2015, 10:35:24 PM

Quote from: lil chris on January 07, 2015, 10:16:39 PM
I have just come to check out my Powercab adapter, I have not used it for a while now I am using the Booster instead. You can not fit a 3 pin plug its a American 2 pin adapter, you have to use it with the shaver adapter which I think was supplied,it does have a fuse..I only need it occasionally when I need to use the program track, I might replace it sometime in the future.

What you are confronted with there is one of many reasons the NCE DCC Twin appealed to me (in the other thread), I can side step this situation as that one has a PSU block that also has figure 8 plugged input cable, and there are 13A fused UK ones of them to replace the USA one. That is how I think your larger 5 amp psu works too. So take a Twin, add a Procab and I got something similar which will be more than adequate for my almost 5 mtrs of track in two loops and my 2 locos. I can buy all that in "instalments" one unit at time too, gets me up and running 2-3 months quicker into the bargain!

lil chris · January 07, 2015, 10:57:05 PM

I see where you are coming from Ian but like I said in my earlier thread I would give Digitrains a ring if I where you. My SB5 booster came with a English 3 pin plug, maybe the new Powercabs do too now. I have heard some regulations have also changed in the USA. NCE sent me the upgrade chip for my Powercab, I have had mine for about 2 years now, the recall stack can now be enabled to 6 loco's. I had already bought the upgrade to the SB5 booster which also has a recall stack of 6. I have trouble trying to run 2 never mind 6....he...he......even though you can just flick between them. Which ever way you go it's your choice , you can't go far wrong with NCE gear, I just think for the extra £34 or so you get more functionality.

Bob Wild · January 11, 2015, 11:18:53 PM

What is the risk assessment if you remove the plug when you're not there?

Trainfish · January 11, 2015, 11:52:12 PM

Not sure Bob but I'd like to see the method statement for you to be able to do that.

MalcolmInN · January 12, 2015, 12:05:09 AM

Quote from: Trainfish on January 11, 2015, 11:52:12 PM
Not sure Bob but I'd like to see the method statement for you to be able to do that.

I was thinking similar , lol! but refrained from saying so because of getting shouted at in another thread for going off subject and being 'disrespectfull to the OP' (and it was agreed by a mod !) !

Telekinesis ?

At my age I need to do a risk assesment on forgetting to remove the siginificant item before leaving

Agrippa · January 12, 2015, 12:16:37 AM

Not sure what method statements and risk assessments have to do
with toy trains, thought it may be to do with nuclear warheads
fireworks, or out of date stuff in the freezer..

PostModN66 · January 12, 2015, 10:53:41 AM

At the risk of spinning this thread out even longer, exactly what is the safety issue here?

Is it that the adapter won't handle the current? Or a shock risk when plugging/unplugging? Or something else?

It's hard to imagine it to be the current as the applications we are talking about must draw a pretty small current. The little telly on my desk has a two pin plug and is plugged into the mains via an adapter that came with it - no problems so far after about five years.

Is a "shaver adapter" a different beast from a general 2-3pin adapter?

Yours confused Jon

MalcolmInN · January 12, 2015, 12:20:34 PM

Quote from: PostModN66 on January 12, 2015, 10:53:41 AM
At the risk of spinning this thread out even longer, exactly what is the safety issue here?

Errrrum, if you can determine that then you are a better man than I gunga din

None of the above I think, just how to use whatever it was he found using EU approved devices and to remain within his insurance cover ?? I could be wrong !
Kindof like a thought experiment, bit like what Einstein did and that got us Relativity.

There is no easy way to say this - I think you will have to read it all from post #1 onwards, sorry

Meanwhile I think I will step outside, I could be gone some time.
Nurse, nurse, pills please.