Minimal space layout challenges

[lionwing]

For all all sorts of reasons I don't have a huge amount of space in which to build and run a layout.

Therefore my first layout has been 3ft x 2ft which fits neatly under one the "young'uns bed".  At a push I could fit a 3ftx4ft layout under the bed.  Within this space I want to incorporate a lot into my second layout.  Wish list below;

Generally a built up urban theme.
Single Station - a small terminus.
A good yard.
A hidden fiddle yard.
Two levels with some form of viaduct / bridge spanning a road on entry onto the station (Think Coronation Street)

So plenty of challenges but after playing around with Anyrail for a few weeks...very little progress!

[Karhedron]

Since this is a fairly squat space rather than long and thin, would it be easonable to suppose you are considering a continuous run oval? For a small terminus, you would need a branch or something off the oval. I have a hunch that something from Peco's setrack plan book might suit your needs with a bit of tweaking.

Are you thinking steam or modern? If steam, you will need to consider run-around facilities at the terminus which will eat into the space you have available. Modern image with multiple units would allow slightly longer trains.

[EtchedPixels]

You can sort of fit that in 3ft x 2ft although you may want to look at some of the usual sneaky trickery to do so.

This is one I did that was only 85cm x 50cm. As a result the curves are a bit too sharp. On 3'x2 it would have been better. It shows some of the usual tricks

- sidings on the outside to use the corner
- station is just a station end
- loop for run-around etc is partly offscene

http://www.carendt.com/scrapbook/page77a/index.html

near the bottom.

The small space meant I just put the fiddle sidings under the station and houses. There is enough space in the "tunnel" on the left to move stock in and out of the sidings without it becoming visible.

3x2 is a bit more flexible. You've got room to have real loops for the fiddle sidings in part (start on the middle and use the curve as well)

Another angle of attack for a bed would be to use a traverser under the raised scenic area so you pay no cost for pointwork. In use it would be bigger than 2' when accessing the furthest track but it would push in to under 2' to go back under the bed.

It can also save you a lot of money because you don't have to buy an fiddle yard points!

I'm currently building an even smaller layout with sidings on the inside and a through fiddle yard road.

There is lots of inspiration on the carendt site for all kinds of small layouts - and lots of great ideas how to tackel it.

Alan

[lionwing]

Thanks for the quick replies!

The era is yet to be defined but as all the stock I own is steam, although I have my eye on a nice 101 / 108 DMU Green Set, at best it is likely to be "transitional".  My railway era historical knowledge is lacking a little but really enjoying the learning curve!

Alan - there is tons of information in your post and no doubt lots of inspiration which is what I really need!

It is often said a band have their entire life to write their first album which is why some suffer from "second album syndrome"...kinda of applies to railway layouts...I had my whole life to plan the first...

[lionwing]

You can sort of fit that in 3ft x 2ft although you may want to look at some of the usual sneaky trickery to do so.

This is one I did that was only 85cm x 50cm. As a result the curves are a bit too sharp. On 3'x2 it would have been better. It shows some of the usual tricks

- sidings on the outside to use the corner
- station is just a station end
- loop for run-around etc is partly offscene

http://www.carendt.com/scrapbook/page77a/index.html

near the bottom.

The small space meant I just put the fiddle sidings under the station and houses. There is enough space in the "tunnel" on the left to move stock in and out of the sidings without it becoming visible.

3x2 is a bit more flexible. You've got room to have real loops for the fiddle sidings in part (start on the middle and use the curve as well)

Another angle of attack for a bed would be to use a traverser under the raised scenic area so you pay no cost for pointwork. In use it would be bigger than 2' when accessing the furthest track but it would push in to under 2' to go back under the bed.

It can also save you a lot of money because you don't have to buy an fiddle yard points!

I'm currently building an even smaller layout with sidings on the inside and a through fiddle yard road.

There is lots of inspiration on the carendt site for all kinds of small layouts - and lots of great ideas how to tackel it.

Alan

I am liking the idea of a transverser (spelling?) from the point of view of space saving along with the wood working challenge it presents.

What is the convention for wiring / powering a  transverser?  Are they typically wired independently from the main layout or is there a smart way for the active rails (i.e the track currently aligned with the main layout) to draw power?

Thanks.

[EtchedPixels]

One approach is to solder small bits of metal tube onto the tracks both sides and then you can "lock" it in alignment by pushing in the wire (kind of like making the sort of bolts for a shed door). That also has the advantage that only the right line is ever live so you never do the embarrassing stunt of driving the wrong train out (which can be bad...)

[Newportnobby]

Another approach I have seen is the traverser consists of 'L' shaped pieces of aluminium spaced such that no track is actually required on the traverser (the train runs off the layout directly onto the aluminium girder). I believe the power was simple wire from the track to crocodile clips on the aluminium.

[PostModN66]

Mine draws power through the sides of the gate that also aligns the tracks:



Apparently after the Luton exhibition on Saturday it needs maintenance work!


Cheers  Jon 

[EtchedPixels]

Nice bit of work - thats a real industrial grade traverser

[Dorsetmike]

One of our area group members has used an old  scanner mechanisms for driving a  traverser.

[lionwing]

I'm thinking on the lines of a five track traverser mounted on some draw runners.  Each track around 30cm long, I don't plan on running long trains just a few Pannier hauled goods train and the odd passenger service.

Still trying to visualise how the track would be powered...I'ill get there soon!

Now to try and implement this in Anyrail...somehow!

[Dorsetmike]

This thread has got me thinking; as stated elsewhere I am downsizing, moving from  a 3 bedroom house to a 1 or maybe 2 bedroom flat, maybe even one of the "retirement flats" in a block with a warden  and communal facilities. Some of them have rooms which are much smaller than I have here.

So it would seem that minimal space is what I will end up with. The question is just how small is minimal space. My loco stock includes some 4-6-0 express and mixed traffic locos as well as mundane 4-4-0s, 0-6-0s and tanks. This would seem to preclude getting down to 4'x 2'  unless I were to go for an MPD.

I like watching trains go round, and running up to at least 6 coach trains, I can't see doing that on 4'x 2'. My layout that has just been ripped up ready to move house had an oval over 6' x 3' in a bay window with a 5 road terminus on a higher level that could take 6 coaches + van and loco which extended on one side along the adjacent wall  outside the bay and a similar size fiddle  yard on the other side at the base level.

I think I could probably squeeze that down to 8'x 2' 9" by putting more pf the fiddle yard under the station, maybe by using a traverser or cassette system.  Going much smaller than that would need a major rethink on what type of trains to run. The alternative would have to be a long shelf/plank or if space permits a dog bone.

[Newportnobby]

I guess all will depend on what sort of property you find, Mike, and what space is available in it.

The alternative would have to be a long shelf/plank or if space permits a dog bone.

Certainly a dog bone lends itself to having a fiddle yard at the rear fed off the left and right curves and hidden behind a backscene of some description

[EtchedPixels]

My smallest self contained useful layout was (I sold it  ) under 3ft long.

If you want to do end to fiddle you can do a lot in very small spaces, and if you put stuff in front of the fiddle make fairly good use of the space.

I have an even smaller complete end to fiddle layout (sort of) I started working on bits of but realised I needed to invert it and then had a new idea ...

Large loco in small end to fiddle is surprisingly easy to arrange. I've seen layouts which model just one end of a terminus so just a couple of coaches and loco pop out the end and the rest of the train is implied (also very cheap!). Ditto end of station/end of MPD alongside.

For a loop I'd agree - its trickier. Dog-bones don't save much space if any for most sizes either as you've got to fit in a near complete circle not a half circle. Similar problem with fiddle under station.

I've always gone for thin around the walls built over stuff like cupboards so you get full use of the space.

[Dorsetmike]

The sort of thing I'm seeing an quite a few of the flats I've viewed, a longish narrow bedroom (about 11x8) with  window at one end, door and built in wardrobe at the other, so the bed can only be against the long wall hardly leaving enough space to walk round the foot of the bed let alone erect a layout, might just about get a layout under the window, using chests of drawers to support it. No use me putting the bed side on to the wall, I have enough difficulty making a bed I can get at round both sides, have to take a rest half way through to sit down, suck on me inhaler & get me breath back.

The lounge diner (AKA obstacle course) will be taken up by table, chair(s) sofabed ( in case of family visits) computer desk and work surface