Early GF Suburban. What's the Date!

Mr Sprue · February 02, 2014, 01:05:35 PM

Just recently a few of these early coaches have been appearing on eBay. Out of interest can anyone put a date on when they were produced in this packaging?

I'm probably wrong

but I would estimate it dates back to around 1964.

daveg · February 02, 2014, 02:23:48 PM

Certainly before my first venture into N in the v early '70s, so you're probably right.

Bet someone here can give you a spot-on date!

Dave G

Mr Sprue · February 02, 2014, 03:30:05 PM

Hi Dave, yes it would good to have information regarding early GF stock. Myself I am starting to take an interest in their sixties models, I really respect the detail they managed to achieve given the technology around at that time.

daveg · February 02, 2014, 03:53:05 PM

How about this from BernbardTPM on another forum:

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/81691-graham-farish-collections/

Bernard's post suggests the packaging was updated to the black and gold with window just before I got involved in the hobby!

Dave G

talisman56 · February 02, 2014, 04:17:57 PM

Having read the thread linked above I would say that the packaging pictured is the original Graham Farish packaging from 1970 to 1972/73...

Mr Sprue · February 02, 2014, 04:20:01 PM

Thanks for sourcing that info Dave. However what did surprise me talking to Bob Russell a while back, that the Grafar "Golden Arrow" (Spam Can) was manufactured between 1964 to 1965. Although they had a special outer green sleeve their internal box was in the blue/yellow design, which was used for packaging other locos at the time.

Regards
David

Roy L S · February 02, 2014, 06:06:57 PM

Quote from: Mr Sprue on February 02, 2014, 04:20:01 PM
Thanks for sourcing that info Dave. However what did surprise me talking to Bob Russell a while back, that the Grafar "Golden Arrow" (Spam Can) was manufactured between 1964 to 1965. Although they had a special outer green sleeve their internal box was in the blue/yellow design, which was used for packaging other locos at the time.

Regards
David

No that's not correct.

Farish N commenced 1969-70. Initial products were wagons and track.

The first loco was the 94xx Pannier which came in a plastic "jewel case" type box with card outer sleeve. The initial packaging was blue/yellow. I have two of these. Next was the "Holden Tank" and generic "General Purpose Tank" based on it. The "Hall" followed and then the "Spam Can" about 1973/4.

The first Pannier chassis was a pretty reasonable design (Buhler motor) and mine still run quite acceptably, but the can motor chassis then changed completely to a very cheap and nasty plug together job about 1972-3 with lay-shaft driving front and rear axles. These were prone to split gears and in 1976 the chassis that was to serve Farish well until Bachmann took over was introduced in it's first incarnation.

I had a Merchant Navy "Channel Packet" in the green sleeve in Golden Arrow livery and flags. This was a product from 1974-75. Sadly the chassis failed as decribed above and it ended up in the "bits box" and is long since gone.

The coach in the picture here is similar packaging to the 94xx and I would say dates from circa 1971/2. Soon after this the packaging changed to cheaper plastic tray in card sleeve and then "blister packs".

The brand became "Grafar" for a while and "Blue Riband" branding was first introduced with the the 94xx on the "new" chassis before reverting to "Graham Farish" about 1977/8 with gold and black colur scheme.

Regards

Roy

portland-docks · February 02, 2014, 07:55:38 PM

is that a blue one? and is it on ebay? i have a rake of 5 of them and only need the brake end, i got my 5 at a model shop for a 5a each

the blue livery is stunning on them!

Newportnobby · February 02, 2014, 08:28:44 PM

Quote from: portland-docks on February 02, 2014, 07:55:38 PM
is that a blue one? and is it on ebay? i have a rake of 5 of them and only need the brake end, i got my 5 at a model shop for a 5a each the blue livery is stunning on them!

Looks green to me

$:-\$

portland-docks · February 02, 2014, 08:30:31 PM

dam

BernardTPM · February 02, 2014, 08:50:49 PM

That is fairly early Farish N (and Farish N started in 1970). I have one that I converted to an LMS compartment electric back in the mid-1970s and it was old stock then (I think purchased at ACE Supplies, Manor Park). The unpainted coaches were first produced in early 1972 (advance sample shown in RM April '72) and were replaced by painted ones in late 1972 ('Superstock' range, advert Sept. 72 RM) when they went to smaller window boxes. Since the non-corridor versions came just before the corridor stock it is possible that the latter were never released in unpainted form. The four wheelers were released at the end of 1971, but the unpainted ones were in smaller non-window boxes without the separate flocked tray.
So, in answer to what date, I can safely say 1972.

Mr Sprue · February 03, 2014, 09:04:33 AM

Many thanks for your input gents, just been reading up on Wikipedia which all makes sense now. Basically Farish started producing the initial range of N in 1970.

So I guess its worth while collecting some of the early stuff given that it is now over 40 years old.

dodger · February 03, 2014, 04:05:17 PM

I believe the type vehicle shown at the start of the thread was made until GF started producton in Poole.

At an exhibition last year a shop near to me had a stand with many GF suburbans. The first suburban brake I found was completely different and rather poor quaility to the matching coach illustrated. Apparently it was early GF, but made in China!

dodger

Roy L S · February 03, 2014, 08:35:12 PM

Quote from: dodger on February 03, 2014, 04:05:17 PM
I believe the type vehicle shown at the start of the thread was made until GF started producton in Poole.

At an exhibition last year a shop near to me had a stand with many GF suburbans. The first suburban brake I found was completely different and rather poor quaility to the matching coach illustrated. Apparently it was early GF, but made in China!

dodger

I am pretty sure that all early Farish was made in Romany Works, Holton Heath, Poole, not in China - not until after the Bachmann takeover.

The early GF products were a bit crude with plastic moulded wheels etc but the basic suburban coach body shell has not changed significantly through all it's years of production as far as I know.

Regards

Roy

BernardTPM · February 03, 2014, 08:57:13 PM

Actually, ignoring couplings (of which Farish went through several types before returning to sprung ones as they'd started with in 1970) there are two patterns of bodies and two patterns of underframes on the pre=BR coaches. The one in the flock box is the early pattern. If you look round the windows there's a radius right round them, a 'soft' edge as it were. Some time in the late '70s all four bodies were retooled with a thin raised frame, like the bolection mouldings used on LMS Period II and Maunsell coaches (quite appropriately given the body patterns) round the windows as seen here: http://imagehost.vendio.com/a/20048869/aview/1376467357470_IMG_2454.jpg This coach also has the later underframe with smooth solebars - the early coaches are again as the flocked box example. The change of underframe happened after the change in windows so there are examples about with the early underframe and the later body. Interestingly the later underframe has separate, plug-in trussing whereas the earlier chassis is in one piece.