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Author Topic: train length and fiddle yards  (Read 4018 times)

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Offline bluedepot

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train length and fiddle yards
« on: August 09, 2011, 08:22:15 PM »
i like to see long trains running round my layout.... (it's 300cm x 90cm board)

my fiddle yard is too small though :(

to start with i thought it was ok, it can fit 7 mk2s and a loco in all of the 6 loops, but for freight you really need a lot longer.... i'm now looking at collecting a train of tankers, and i'm not going to be able to fit that many TEAs or TTAs into a loop....  so that saves some money but looks a bit daft...

anyway i know that there were trip workings or just shorter trains, but it's kind of a shame that i can't fit in long trains...

anyway until i win the lottery and can build a huge fiddle yard i can't do much about that....


tim

Offline Lawrence

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Re: train length and fiddle yards
« Reply #1 on: August 09, 2011, 09:04:42 PM »
You need a shed mate  ;)

Offline findus

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Re: train length and fiddle yards
« Reply #2 on: August 09, 2011, 09:11:03 PM »
Or do what im trying to do and build a 2nd level! under layout strage for me i hope  ;D

Online MJKERR

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Re: train length and fiddle yards
« Reply #3 on: August 09, 2011, 10:16:42 PM »
It depends on the era and route
Given there are locos with up to 7 coaches, then small freight trains of similar length would be expected

When I lived in Aberdeen during the 1990s the local freight trains were small by comparison to the HSTs that operated
This was primarily due to so much freight being moved by road in preference to rail
A short experiment was made with twice weekly bulk freight, but it didn't last very long and soon reverted to daily freight

However, I do agree that freight trains tend to be much longer
Therefore I would go for a short train of departmental wagons (Seacow or Dogifsh)
Next to that a short train of mixed tankers, such as TTA and PCA
Finally a speedlink train of vans, such as VBA and VGA

Offline Newportnobby

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Re: train length and fiddle yards
« Reply #4 on: August 10, 2011, 11:49:31 AM »
You need a shed mate  ;)

I've heard of a builders mate or an electricians mate, but a SHED MATE ???
Did your new gin palace come with such a thing, and is he/she any good at modelling n gauge?? ;D

Offline Sithlord75

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Re: train length and fiddle yards
« Reply #5 on: August 10, 2011, 01:05:37 PM »
The fiddle yard we take to exhibitions is a 20 track traverser with every track being 2 meters long - i.e. Deltic and 12 Mk 1s.  Still means the pair of LMS Garratts don't have enough room.  As a result, my wife reckons no model railway nutter (MRN - wonder if I can put them as Post Nominals after my name...) ever has a long enough fiddle yard!

The biggest advantage of a traverser (since I am considering building one of my own at home) is no points (therefore less cost - especially if you use a second hand filing cabinet to get the runners from) and any train will fit any siding rather than them getting shorter as you get further out.
Kevin Knight
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My blog thingo can be found here: http://www.sithlordsrailwayblog.blogspot.com

Offline Newportnobby

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Re: train length and fiddle yards
« Reply #6 on: August 10, 2011, 03:23:47 PM »
I totally agree the problem with the 'normal' fiddle yard is the diminishing lengths of the tracks.
My plans have always been to have the longest one for freight e.g. hoppers, coal trucks, tankers or vans, the next longest for loco + 6 MK1's and then divide the remainder up for parcels, pick up goods, DMU's etc. This works for both up and down lines so I will have total 4 tracks for each.
Having a one piece board and very little space I cannot indulge in a traverser so am lumbered with a limit on my train length but I do try to max out where possible. :NGaugersRule:

Offline EtchedPixels

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Re: train length and fiddle yards
« Reply #7 on: August 10, 2011, 05:01:16 PM »
If you've got the width then you can put a 180 curve one end of the fiddle yard with the tracks coming off the curve into the layout. That not only allows sneaky reversing moves but if done both ends (or if its and end-end layout) means that you can do a bit of trickery with long trains where you keep it in two halves and split/join it entirely offscene by using the curve to assemble/split it between two fiddle sidings.

For many formations you don't necessarily have to have diminishing track lengths - you can arrange the points so the tracks branch from the middle one end and the edges the other, giving a set of equal lengths, or indeed a combination of styles. For modern image I also find it handy to have a few very short sidings off the inside roads to use as DMU storage, with the road they join either free or with enough space to reverse a DMU out and back in at one end or the other.

Starting the split into a fiddle yard on the curve also can save a lot of space and if you can split a siding off before the curves that curves outside the main lines and back joining after them the other end of the yard after the curves you can sometimes get a very very long siding or two into a layout. Handy for those long freights.

It's surprising how much you can get into a fiddle yard if you go beyond the textbook divide/sidings/rejoin model. You can also often sneak extra storage sidings under scenery adjacent to the fiddle yard !
"Knowledge has no value or use for the solitary owner: to be enjoyed it must be communicated" -- Charles Pratt, 1st Earl Camden

Offline bluedepot

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Re: train length and fiddle yards
« Reply #8 on: August 10, 2011, 06:57:16 PM »
cheers for the replies

yes i have a speedlink rake, which can be any length you want really so that's good for me.... except i keep buying new wagons due to some strange addiction to ebay...

i also have a rake with 5 dogfish and some tube and pipe wagons, with brake vans and each end, again that's quite short so can go on an outside short loop.

i then have 19 HEA hoppers, and this is too short really but oh well...

that's all the freight i have, but i want to have a long rake of TEAs for use with the new class 60 or 56....

anyway yes the tips are good, a massive shed would be the best option!!! or next best a traverser, i have added to my fiddle yard 2 sidings as opposed to some extra loops, and these can fit in about 12 mk 1s. getting them in and out the siding may require some bizzare shunting moves partly on scene though!!! never mind...

yeh no lead in straights from curves would have been better in retrospect, but i was worried about derailments.... also good idea about short headshunts on the loops to store DMUs in... i'm adding one this weekend!

i think what i may end up having to do however is just use stock boxes and swap over the wagons and coaches quite often... this way i wont need to keep all the points to the loops clear.

the layout is for my ammusement only so a few hand of god rolling stock changes and running delays don't matter too much!!!

i may switch to t gauge one day or just build a microlayout for dmu's instead.... would be pretty boring though!!!


cheers


tim
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Offline Newportnobby

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Re: train length and fiddle yards
« Reply #9 on: August 10, 2011, 07:48:22 PM »

the layout is for my ammusement only so a few hand of god rolling stock changes and running delays don't matter too much!!!
cheers
tim
.

Likewise. I am not good enough to get to exhibition standard and my railway will be for my/our eyes only.
Lord only knows how long it will take to change the layout from steam to diesel as I keep all my stock in their original boxes. What the heck - what's half a day or so? ::)

Online MJKERR

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Re: train length and fiddle yards
« Reply #10 on: August 10, 2011, 08:00:38 PM »
i then have 19 HEA hoppers, and this is too short really but oh well...

that's all the freight i have, but i want to have a long rake of TEAs for use with the new class 60 or 56....

I have a rake of 20 HEA wagon and looks acceptable 
This is relatively short when compared to other coal trains and reality
I have two rakes of 10 TTA wagons each and again these look acceptable, equally these could easily be reduced to about 6 and still look acceptable

Offline EtchedPixels

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Re: train length and fiddle yards
« Reply #11 on: August 10, 2011, 09:37:25 PM »
There are routes that were in reality limited to 25 or so HAAs because of the brake force available but it's not clear it matters. In the real world you almost never see all of a train at once except from far away, and in the model form the same is true on most layouts from the point you see it 20 HEAs is wider than the human angle of vision so only a passing bird or lizard is going to see all the wagons at once and think it is short.

I wouldn't get hung up on longer trains being exactly correct, it'll look right if a bit shorter.

Alan



"Knowledge has no value or use for the solitary owner: to be enjoyed it must be communicated" -- Charles Pratt, 1st Earl Camden

Offline bluedepot

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Re: train length and fiddle yards
« Reply #12 on: August 11, 2011, 06:36:29 PM »
hi

yeh it will look ok i guess... just disappointing but even in n of course you can't really have full length trains unless you have the space.... at least it's better than a OO layout in the same space could fit in


tim

 

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