Exhibition Etiquette

[texhorse]

I thought I'd start this thread after reading what people will be expecting at the International N Gauge Show this weekend.  Feel free to add your thoughts on anything to do with exhibitions.

I will start the ball rolling with photography.  I've been an attendee at many exhibitions and also run layouts at exhibitions, N Gauge, OO Gauge and O Gauge.  What do people think about photography?  For me, I feel it is courteous and fair to ask people running layouts whether they mind me photographing their work.  Most people won't mind.  They say immitation is the greatest form of flattery, and if I see a scene or detail I feel could fit well onto my layout, then I like to photograph it, or at least make notes.  If my camera needs a flash for the photo, I will tell the operator about it.

Being on the other side of the layout as an operator, if someone asks me if I would object to photography, I will usually say No.  However, one instance springs to mind at Stafford.  I was helping operate a Modern Image OO Gauge Layout.  It was late on Saturday afternoon and I was tired.  This guy walks up to our layout with a tripod and expensive looking video camera.  He makes quite a large space around him and sets his video camera in motion.  He then proceeds to get a 35mm SLR out with flash, and proceeds to take multiple images of the layout.  (His video must have been awesome with a flash every half a second).  He took about 20 flash photos, put his camera away, stopped recording, picked up his video camera and walked away.

Myself and my two fellow operators couldn't believe it.  This individual had not asked us if we minded him blinding us or pushing other people out of the way for him to get his pictures.  I did hear he went to a continental layout a little later on and they complained to the exhibition manager about him.  These guys were from France as well, and spoke to us after the exhibition, saying they couldn't believe how obnoxious he had been.

So, what do you think about photography or anything else to do with exhibition etiquette?

Andy

[Sprintex]

Simple answer: flash photography, ask first out of common courtesy to prevent blinding anyone. Any other photography or video then no asking necessary, after all it IS a public exhibition and as such people are free to make their own photographic record if they so wish

As for moving other paying visitors out of the way he wouldn't have done that with me, in fact if he was that rude I'd have deliberately stood right in the way for as long as necessary!


Paul

[port perran]

I agree absolutely with Sprintex.
Photography is fine as long as you don't inconvenience anyone.
I've only exhibited at one show (I have another coming up) and some chap asked if I'd mind positioning a particular train (pannier and engineering train) so he could take photos.
No problem.
As for the guy with the video etc. I would probably have asked him (politely) to go away !

[Michael Shillabeer]

I always ask for permission before taking photos.

It also has the benefit in that I'll often be asked if I'd like a particular train posed - this then allows me to use a long exposure and no flash

My main lens for model railways has lost auto-focus so no photos at TINGS this year. The camera body doesn't have reticles for manual focusing

Michael

[Mr Sprue]

I have to say "shutter bugs" do annoy me sometimes at shows especially when they block up the walkways, if they don't move after being politely asked I just move on by regardless!

The one thing that has surprised me though, is that no ones layout has been trashed by someone suffering a seizure from PSE (Photosensitive epilepsy) I guess that's a precaution which has been overlooked but something that could happen.

[EtchedPixels]

prevent blinding anyone. Any other photography or video then no asking necessary, after all it IS a public exhibition and as such people are free to make their own photographic record if they so wish

It's a private location and your photographs may also include images of the operators. You need permission to take photographs in a private location, you also need permission from anyone clearly recognizable if the photo is ever going to be published anywhere unless it falls under one of the other exceptions. Not many folks seem to say no - although a couple I've seen say no to the professional mag photographers (on the grounds the photographer is making money from the work of the modeller who is seeing none of it)

You can stand on the main road and take all the photos you like (privacy considerations aside) but you won't get much good material

I do find some photographers annoying. They appear to think that possession of a giant camera (usually with a foot long lens set on the front  like some statement of anatomical inadequacy) entitles them to stand where they like. When that doesn't work they then deploy the tripod to stab, bash and trip everyone out of the way. 

Thankfully most photographers are better behaved 

Alan

[OwL]

Like most public events, you will always get your pushers and shovers unfortunately. I think most folk don't even realise that they are doing this. They just get caught up in the heat of the moment wether it chasing a bargain or trying to get the ultimate picture however consideration for others is paramount and good venue staffing should be in place to ensure people are reminded not to act like raging bulls!!

Regarding photographer's, Manners cost nothing ! just be polite, consider others around you and ask permission before you snap any pictures for reasons already pointed out in this thread.

Above all just be considerate to people around you and people will act calmer.

Simples........

[Dorsetmike]

I tend to use a bridge camera at shows (and at home)  in preference to a DSLR, you get far better depth of focus due to the much shorter actual focal length of the lens (ignore the "35mm equivalent" focal lengths often quoted) also you don't need to lug a load of different lenses about and if the camera has built in anti-shake mechanism then a tripod  and flash should not be necessary under exhibition lighting. I do have 2 DSLRs and a load of lenses, but find I'm using them less and less.

I always ask permission to take photographs; once an exhibitor of a small  0 gauge  shunting layout replied in a stand offish manner "only for your own private use"

[Richard @ N'Tastic Scale Models]

 Unless they is a sign at the point of entry saying no photography, then you are entitled to take pictures. Go to a shopping center and glass doors will have signs or engraving on saying no photographs, motor bike helmets and other items. Have had an argument with security on thissubject whilst working for a tenant.

Signs on layouts saying no photography are meaningless, unless there is a sign at point of entry.

[EtchedPixels]

Unless they is a sign at the point of entry saying no photography, then you are entitled to take pictures.

You don't have implicit permission. The signs are put up so that by taking a photograph you are automatically deemed in law to be a trespasser and the law of trespass can be used both to remove you and to collect damages. In particular it allows the centre security to use "reasonable force" to remove you if you decide not to leave. If there was no sign it might be harder to throw you out rather than just stop you. With the sign present security can simply throw you out.

In addition the laws on the rights to privacy apply (indeed these even apply for photography from a public place), as does data protection law.

Signs on layouts saying no photography are meaningless, unless there is a sign at point of entry.

The big big question is whether the layout operator is an agent of the exhibition management. If they are (and I don't know the caselaw on this if any) then they appear to have both the power to order you to stop (eg with their sign) and to "ask" you to leave.

You also have the small matter of copyright. A model railway is a copyright protected art work. Photographing a layout is hardly "incidental inclusion", and in most cases the layout is not *permanently* on public display so the exemption there does not apply.

Video is even more fun - if you have a nice piece of video of a sound loco running you may need rights clearance for the sound samples! Likewise the layout operator needs public performance rights to the sounds in their decoder. Not usually a big issue in the UK but in some countries its fun because "fair use" applies to things like using youtube downloads to make your own sound sets (generally illegal in he UK without permission)  but not to public performance of the result.

Alan

[Agrippa]

I always ask permission to take photographs; once an exhibitor of a small  0 gauge  shunting layout replied in a stand offish manner "only for your own private use"

Perhaps he thought you were going to send it to a readers wives' mag.

By the way DM about depth of field comparing with a DSLR does this apply if the bridge camera
sensor is smaller? If it is the same size it wouldn't make any difference and would also
depend on the aperture and lens being  used.

Re photography in public/private places Amateur Photographer magazine has had a long running
debate about this, many open spaces which might appear to be public are actually
private property , especially in the City of London.

As they say it's a minefield, luckily not literally.

[Dorsetmike]

depth of field comparing with a DSLR does this apply if the bridge camera
sensor is smaller? If it is the same size it wouldn't make any difference and would also
depend on the aperture and lens being  used.

It's due to the smaller size sensor only requiring a shorter focal length lens to give the same coverage as a longer lens on a DSLR or 35mm camera. The shorter the focal length the greater the depth of field,

I am not aware of any bridge or compact cameras with the same size sensor as a DSLR.

[4x2]

I have to agree with sprintex, I'm planning to exhibit my layout next year and as far as i'm concerned, i'm showing my layout to the general public and the taking of photo's should be a given. I do feel though that if you're going to use the flash, you should let people know first...

As for the copyright issue, my layout 'Black Sheep Lane' has been copied already - it's almost identical !  But surely that why we exhibit, to inspire the next generation of modellers... Copying doesn't take much imagination, but when the skills have been learned they hopefully move on to their own ideas 

[silly moo]

Changing the subject from photography, I hope the punters will wash, and wear deodorant as I believe this is a problem at some shows. The weather is expected to be hot over the weekend.

Perhaps I should bring a clothes peg just in case   

[4x2]

Changing the subject from photography, I hope the punters will wash, and wear deodorant as I believe this is a problem at some shows. The weather is expected to be hot over the weekend.

Perhaps I should bring a clothes peg just in case   

Fabreeze !