FLAT HELP...

findus · July 20, 2011, 10:39:31 AM

Hi i need some help with my rented flat, is there anybody that can help?

The flat was rented in october last year, it was being lived in when we looked around and all looked good so we took it, at the 2nd viewing we noticed a leak and the estate agent said they would have it sorted before we moved in.

moving in day came and the leak was not sorted it took another 6-8 weeks for them to dig up the burst pipe and replace and repaint the area that had been damaged. the carpets were soaked through and we were given a dehumidifier to run its now july so almost a year since and im still running a dehumidifier..

what i need to know is who should pay to run it?
Its an industrial size machine and is noisey and takes up half the corridor am i right to think this is unfair and should try and claim?

Windows closed by day to run the machine and at night open to air the flat we are also getting mould i would guess due to the damp.

What should i do?

i cant afford legal costs

any advice would be great

thanks

Lawrence · July 20, 2011, 10:48:11 AM

If you have let the flat through a company you should always contact them in the first instance, it does sound to me though that either the dehumidifier isn't working or the leak has not been fixed properly. They possibly may compensate you for the power consumed by the unit but you will have to check the small print in your lease to confirm that.

But your first contact should be with the company you have leased the flat through, it is up to them to sort it out and you certainly shouldn't be getting mould, that is something the should attend to immediately due to health implications.

If you have leased the flat privately then you will have to go directly to the owner of the property.

Have a look at http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/HomeAndCommunity/Privaterenting/index.htm there are several sections about tenants rights and what you can reasonably expect.

Hope this helps

Tank · July 20, 2011, 10:51:51 AM

Well, as a floor layer, I can tell you right now that the leak is not fixed if you've had any kind of dehumidifier on for a year.

And still getting mould....

As for the running of the dehumidifier, the leak obviously isn't fixed so I'd complain again and ask for the money back or you'll start legal proceedings. You shouldn't have to pay for all of that electric (I'm guessing it will run on 1.5kW of power at the very least), and the fact that you still have the dehumidifier in your flat shows that the company you rent from know that there is a problem still.

findus · July 20, 2011, 11:56:21 AM

Thank you both for your fast replies. i have already spoken to the letting agent and have had no luck they say im to run it as part of the upkeep of the flat, even though it does not state this im my agreement . so i have now called enviromental health to come have a look at the mould.
they said having a child is enough to get them to sort it

m1racleman · July 20, 2011, 12:00:47 PM

Far be it for me to suggest that Tank is not quite correct in what he says but there are other factors involved.
A dehumidifier will only remove moisture from the air that passes through it and will NOT extract water from a wall or floor that has become saturated. It is absolutely necessary to have a good flow of warm air circulating through the area. Think about it !! Your washing will dry on an outside line with a stiff breeze even in damp weather but will often stay wet for a long time in still warm conditions. It is the flow of air that dries.
Any wall that had been affected should not have been redecorated for at least 6 months to allow moisture to permeate out of the plaster and brickwork. If the wall is plasterboard, then either it should have been replaced or given a coat of any "STAiN STOP" paint.
As regards the costs involved, the owner of the property is liable for all structural repairs to the property under the terms of any LEGAL shorthold agreement which is what you should have. The owner is also liable for your costs as far as power consumption is concerned, provided that it can be shown to be part of the reinstement works. He SHOULD, and is legally required to, have builldings insurance to cover all these eventuallities.
You must talk to the letting agent or the landlord if you have no agent, and ask for your costs to be refunded. Make sure you do this in writing too.
If you get nowhere, then go to Citizens Advice as they will be more than able to help you in all respects regarding this matter, including any legal action that may be required.
You need also to be aware that if there are signs of mould on wall, thenn there will be spores in the air within the room and these can often cause severe symptoms in persons suffering from any respiratory problems.

m1racleman · July 20, 2011, 12:03:30 PM

Quote from: findus on July 20, 2011, 11:56:21 AM
i have already spoken to the letting agent and have had no luck they say im to run it as part of the upkeep of the flat

TOTAL RUBBISH!!! It is not your resposibility to do this if it was a result of a leak in the OWNERS property!!

findus · July 20, 2011, 12:12:28 PM

Quote from: m1racleman on July 20, 2011, 12:00:47 PM
Far be it for me to suggest that Tank is not quite correct in what he says but there are other factors involved.
A dehumidifier will only remove moisture from the air that passes through it and will NOT extract water from a wall or floor that has become saturated. It is absolutely necessary to have a good flow of warm air circulating through the area. Think about it !! Your washing will dry on an outside line with a stiff breeze even in damp weather but will often stay wet for a long time in still warm conditions. It is the flow of air that dries.
Any wall that had been affected should not have been redecorated for at least 6 months to allow moisture to permeate out of the plaster and brickwork. If the wall is plasterboard, then either it should have been replaced or given a coat of any "STAiN STOP" paint.
As regards the costs involved, the owner of the property is liable for all structural repairs to the property under the terms of any LEGAL shorthold agreement which is what you should have. The owner is also liable for your costs as far as power consumption is concerned, provided that it can be shown to be part of the reinstement works. He SHOULD, and is legally required to, have builldings insurance to cover all these eventuallities.
You must talk to the letting agent or the landlord if you have no agent, and ask for your costs to be refunded. Make sure you do this in writing too.
If you get nowhere, then go to Citizens Advice as they will be more than able to help you in all respects regarding this matter, including any legal action that may be required.
You need also to be aware that if there are signs of mould on wall, thenn there will be spores in the air within the room and these can often cause severe symptoms in persons suffering from any respiratory problems.

Thats very useful thank you.
so if they were to say the dehumidifier is there due to mould caused by our general living then im stuck right?

barkfast · July 20, 2011, 12:28:37 PM

Obviously laws (while similiar) are probably different in the UK to Aus.. so I guess you could take these comments with a grain of salt.

We have a rental property and such a leak would legally need to be fixed - especially considering the potential health impacts of mould spoures. At the end of the day, it is the responsibilty of the landlord to provide a liveable residence for the tenant (isnt that why you pay rent?)

First place I would recommend you contact is the relevant Government authority that deals with tennancy issues. In NSW Australia its handled by the Dept of Fair Trading. I would expect they would have information about the rights and responsibilities for both landlords and tennants. Maybe give them a call to get some clarity on the issue.

In Aus, we have a tenancy tribunal (similiar to a court system) that both landlords and tenants can use to resolve issues. If you have the legal right to have the leak repaired, you could threaten to take the owner to the tribunal.

Failing that you could always threaten to not run the dehumidifier and escalate damage to *their* property.

poliss · July 20, 2011, 01:38:34 PM

You need to speak to Citizens Advice Findus. They should be able to tell you where you stand.

m1racleman · July 20, 2011, 01:56:32 PM

I think you may find this of great help !

http://www.tenancyagreementservice.co.uk/repairing-obligations.htm

Happy reading

Tank · July 20, 2011, 06:27:14 PM

Quote from: m1racleman on July 20, 2011, 12:00:47 PM
Far be it for me to suggest that Tank is not quite correct in what he says but there are other factors involved.

Quite right that there are other factors involved, but a dehumidifer turned on in a closed room for 12 MONTHS indicates that there is still a problem! My guess is that when the dug up the floor that they punctured the DPM under the concrete, or the pipe isn't sealed. If it was just damp in the walls (without anything adding to the damp) then the dehumidifier would have got rid of that within two months.

m1racleman · July 20, 2011, 06:38:08 PM

Quote from: Tank on July 20, 2011, 06:27:14 PM
Quote from: m1racleman on July 20, 2011, 12:00:47 PM
Far be it for me to suggest that Tank is not quite correct in what he says but there are other factors involved.

Quite right that there are other factors involved, but a dehumidifer turned on in a closed room for 12 MONTHS indicates that there is still a problem! My guess is that when the dug up the floor that they punctured the DPM under the concrete, or the pipe isn't sealed. If it was just damp in the walls (without anything adding to the damp) then the dehumidifier would have got rid of that within two months.

I totally get your point but as we both know, a dehumidifier will ALWAYS produce water even when everything around is dry. It just keeps sucking it out of the air and as the average humidity in this country is around 60% that is a lot of water !!
It is really necessary to check the walls and floor with a Protimeter or similar device. Only then can you be sure that the wall is or isn't damp and if so, to what degree. I believe you can hire one from hire shops
http://www.nationaltoolhireshops.co.uk/Moisture-Meter-320125-for-Hire/

http://www.flooringforensics.net/

Chris · July 20, 2011, 07:37:03 PM

Findus, just caught up with this thread. Something I haven't yet seen suggested is that as you are renting through a letting agent - I presume this is a private rental rather than via Council/housing association - is that you are not currently renting a property fit for human habitation due to the mould and apparent leak that is still a problem, therefore you are within your right to not pay anymore rent until the property is sorted. This will, or should, be part of the letting contract, and in any event is part of the law. If you have not already done so, contact the environmental health department of West Berkshire council and ask them to come round and inspect the flat. They should not charge to do this. They will then advise if the flat is fit for purpose and write up a report if necessary.

As M1racleman has already advised your letting agent is wrong to tell you that it is your responsibility, especially as the leak was already known about before you signed the contract to the flat. Responsibility ultimately lies with the landlord but it is the duty of the letting agent to see that any required work is done. As an aside, have you taken any photos of the mould and leak, particularly when you first moved in? These will be vital if this does eventually end up in a court, or if you involve Environmental Health.

findus · July 20, 2011, 08:25:40 PM

Wow so much information thank you all..
the dehumidifier pumps out to fill a bath by about 25% for every 12 hours its run! crazy amounts.
the mould is in every room now and we are almost living in the center of the rooms and as its getting warmer its getting worse.
we have pictures right from day one and have kept all letters that have been sent so i have enough to confirm we have made a complaint..
cant wait for enviromental health to come and look over the flat, i just hope the say its not fit to live in and we need to move at the letting agents cost.
my parents have offered to pay any legal fee`s so i should also be getting a letter written from my new solicitor

i think my main aim is to get out but i want these guys to know they dont mess with me and my family, i want to also make sure the next tennants dont go through the same as us. oh and some money back would be nice

Chris · July 20, 2011, 09:46:19 PM

Excellent news to hear you have made some progress. If you are now going down the legal route, then I would push for ALL your money back, as it was recognised by the letting agent from Day 1 there was a problem, particularly if they promised to have the problem sorted before you moved in.

Best wishes for a satisfactory outcome.