Things to see and do in Belgium

[OwL]

Hi Brooksy, do you know of many model shops in Belgium that stock N Scale and are worth a visit?

Cookies: Two things, watch the film 'in Brugges' before you go, its a classic
Secondly enjoy yourself and bring back many pictures of your rail journies.
All the best

[tadpole]

I have more experience of Wallonie than Vlaams, but one thing you can do without embarrassment in Mons, and probably most other Walloon cities, is eat horsemeat. Accompanied by the aforementioned frites and washed down with the also aforementioned excellent local beer, a horse steak a true Belgian experience. (something in between beef and venison?  And not as good as either, to be honest).

Belgium is probably the the european country that is most like Britain, architecturally and railway wise. Thirty years ago when i last spent serious amounts of time in belgium, SNCB/NMBS was like BR's SR with AC instead of DC, elderly green emus with yellow fronts, a bit more variety, alot more freight, and a bigger loading gauge. It's alot more colourful now.

[Brooksy]

As I understand, Dutch is main language in the places I will be visiting with French spoken in the southern parts of the country. I'll still try and speak a little Dutch, even if its just used to greet people  . Alot of people have said how people speak very good english and are welcoming and friendly.

Indeed - in the north they speak Dutch but Brussels, although officially bilingual, you'll hear mostly French on the streets and in the shops.

For greetings "hello" is pretty popular but if you want to be more authentic "goedendag" (daytime) and "goedenavond" (evening/night) are good. "Alstublieft" (please) and "dank u wel" (thank you) will also come in useful. Otherwise "bier", "frietjes" and "chocolade" for your all your dietary requirements!

Hi Brooksy, do you know of many model shops in Belgium that stock N Scale and are worth a visit?

N gauge isn't so popular over here and it's mostly HO. The shop I go to near me 'het spoor' has a little bit in but is not near any stations so not that accessible. MinZaPint suggested that there was a good shop in Blankenberge station (also accessible by rail from Brussels/Bruges) but I've not been so can't confirm. I model mostly UK outline so get most stuff sent over.

If you do find a shop and are tempted by a  purchase then there has been a new release in the past couple of months that I would recommend: a SNCB/NMBS class 18 made by Hobbytrain. This is the locomotive that's going to pull you on most of your longer distance journeys.

[GroupC]

A few other people have mentioned Ypres / Ieper and I'd definitely second that recommendation, and that for the Menin Gate in the town too, with the nightly remembrance service. It bears the names of 55,000 allied soldiers with no known grave. That's a bit abstract and difficult to get your head around, so when I was there I looked for the surnames of everyone I could think of who I knew, and didn't fail to find a single one represented. Sort of makes the scale of loss more immediate.

In the same area is the Tyne Cot WW1 military cemetery which in my view is a must - about 12,000 graves I think. Very memorable and thought-provoking.

On the same WW1 subject, Poperinghe has a railway station and the Talbot House "Toc H" building in town is really interesting - it was run by a WW1 chaplain as a place for off-duty soldiers of all rank to visit. It's very non-commercial so you won't thankfully find disney-type souvenirs but when I went a few years ago it was very well preserved and run by lovely staff who seem to have taken on board the original ethos.

When you're on the train in the Western Front area keep your eyes open as there are WW1 cemeteries all over the place - some right next to the railway lines. Some are big and some only have a few graves in but they're all immaculate. It's worth having a stroll around one or two and noting the many headstones marked "Known Unto God" or similar, and the ages of the dead.

Finally, the Cloth Hall in Ypres has an excellent WW1 museum which is well worth a visit, plus there's a fantastic chocolate shop across the square.

On the language front, it's hard when there to forecast whether the people you come across will be speaking English, French, Dutch or Flemish. Obviously the first is no problem for most of us, a lot of brits can at least have a stab at French (and the Belgians won't sneer at you when you get it wrong), but Dutch is, well, a foreign language to most of us. As for Flemish... if you can't make out what language people are talking in and it seems like it's a mish-mash of every northern-European tongue you've ever heard, that's Flemish. Attempt at your peril.

Hope you have a great time. Quite jealous.

[tadpole]

Flemish is Dutch, they are one and the same. Even the dialect is similar to that spoken in the Netherlands south of the Rhine.

The French spoken in the south is interesting, for example: for 77, the French say soixante dix-sept (sixty seventeen), while the Walloons say septant sept (seventy seven) - far more sensible.

Language is a contentious issue, with even small villages often being divided into a complicated patchwork of langauge zones, and people refusing to acknowledge the other's language. There are enclaves of both languages deep within the others' "territory". Bruxelles is mostly French in the commercial centre and southern suburbs, but mostly Dutch elsewhere. It's not just the language, the Dutch-speakers are more Germanic with Germanic values and work ethic, while the Wallons are at least as French as the French are, and just as good at going on strike. There's probably a religous aspect too, but I won't pretend to understand that.

In the Netherlands, Dutch is the first language, but everyone speaks several languages (including French), quite sickening.
In Flanders, Dutch is the first language, and most speak only Dutch, they're often better at English or German than they are (or admit to being) at French.

[cookiescrumble]

Having looked into Ypres after the suggestions, I will be visting the town during my trip and will be there for the memorial which is played at 8pm (according to wikipedia).

That leaves me with 2 days in Brussels and then days in Antwerp, Gent, Bruges and Ypres which fills up the 6 day trip nicely. There is still much more to explore but this is just an excuse to go back .

A massive thanks to everyone who has made suggestions, you can't beat first hand experiences of being there.

[Brooksy]

Flemish is Dutch, they are one and the same. Even the dialect is similar to that spoken in the Netherlands south of the Rhine.

I would say that Flemish and Dutch are very similar but not quite one and the same. On the basic level it's a bit like the difference between British English and American English - a few words different here and there. The major problem is the dialects - although (one of) the official language of Belgium is standard Dutch, not many people speak standard Dutch and the Dutch spoken in the different parts of Belgium are so different that even poeple from different parts of the country can't understand each other. Imagine Geordie, Scots or Yorks but far worse - I was quite amazed when I found out that they even subtitled their own people on the television - for example when someone is being interviewed on the news or on a reality TV show like Big Brother. 

To cookiescrumble, your itinereray looks good and I'm sure you'll have a splendid time. Good luck and let us know how you got on! 

[thos]

Unless you're in Wallonie, just use English.

The Flemish accent is far more musical than Dutch Dutch, which I find very harsh and unpleasant.  The Flems claim to speak Flemish, but it is really an accent.  Think of Scotland: most speak English with an accent, few understand the Scots dialect, and hardly any speak Gaelic.

Apart from the places mentioned (a trip on the Brugge canals is nice if the weather is warm), the coastal tram is interesting: huge but too far from the sea.  Brussels has a more traditional tram.  The tramway museum at Tervuren is woth a visit.

The commuter trains are frequently double-deckers, so give a good view of the surroundings.

Most beers are Flemish (including all those mentioned above), but my favorite is Maredsous which is still brewed by monks, whereas most of the abbey beers are now produced by the company that owns Bud.

[cookiescrumble]

Due to a change of dates I've had to put this trip back to my summer leave in May, I will be going for a total of 7 days /6 nights which gives me another day. I'm thinking of using it to visit the lion mound/Waterloo battlefield which was recommended by a colleague at work.

In the meantime I'm off to Germany on the 11th February, staying for a couple of nights in Berlin, then heading to Hamburg on the last day to visit miniature wonderland and flying back from there.

[MinZaPint]

The "Butte du Lion" is well worth the view from the top, the diorama is also worth a look but bear in mind the tapestry was painted a long time ago has to be reguarly repaired. I'm sure you'll enjoy the trip and the 

[swisstony]

If you go to Brussels you could always go for a stroll along the edge of North Station in the early eveing, some interesting sites, but no model shops 

[Jerry Howlett]

If you go to Brussels you could always go for a stroll along the edge of North Station in the early eveing, some interesting sites, but no model shops 

Lots of coloured lights, well red mostly perchance ?

[Claude Dreyfus]

Plenty of loco-hauled stuff...which is always a good thing.

Also decent beer, Delirium(Brussels) is well worth a visit with its 2000-odd varieties of beer, Moules Marinier with fries (fries must have mayo and ketchup...it is the law!), and of course the chocolate. When I was in Brussels in November, there was a model shop near the cathedral.

Don't forget...Brussels also have trams!

[cookiescrumble]

Just thought I would post another update with regards to this planned trip. I have filled up my annual leave in late May/early June with a trip to Austria so will be pushing my trip to Belgium back to a later date. I'll be traveling all the way to Vienna from Portsmouth by train  and will spend a total of 10 days abroad. I chose this trip as I have 2 weeks off work and thought it better suited. I can always head to Belgium for one of my long weekends and will certainly head over there this year even if it is just a trip to Brussels.

My new itinerary is:

28th May

Portsmouth to London and the morning Eurostar to Paris arriving at 11:20. I'll have 6 hours in Paris for lunch and a chance to see a few of the sights before departing on the 18:20 TGV Lyria service to Zurich, arriving about 22:30.

29th May

Day in Zurich

30th May

Traveling by Railjet to Salzburg stopping off at Innsbruck for lunch and a mooch about.

31st May - 3rd June

Spending 4 days in Salzburg with 2 days in the city itself and day trips to Munich and Hallstatt.

4th June

Travel by IC train to Vienna stopping off at Linz for lunch and some sightseeing

5-6th June

2 days in Vienna before flying back home in the evening.

[weave]

Hi,

Sounds like a wonderful trip. So jealous. Have done Calais to Madrid and Calais to Sicily in the past (non of this eurostar rubbish, goes too fast so you can't see anything  )

Both were great for trainspotting but the latter through Switzerland and northern Italy was great for the scenery.

Would love to travel by train in Austria.

Pics, pics, pics!

Love the 'stop off for lunch' on your itinerary. When I win lottery tonight we could 'do tea in St. Moritz'

Have a great time

Cheers weave