Rail Length???

[Oldman]

Hopefully someone can answer this question
As I am getting ready for the next project and want to sort out everything before I proceed this time I need some answers.

On Real railways before the advent of continuous welded rail what was the length of each rail on a standard piece of track(between bolted side plates.).  Why I want to know is I am thinking of some wagons carrying said rail so need to work out what stock and what length rail I shall need .    The project will be British Railways era.   

[Calnefoxile]

Oldman,

AFAIK the rail length is 60'.

Cheers

Neal.

[red_death]

Yep, Neal is right - 60 ft track panels were standard after nationalisation.  I've a vague feeling that towards the end of its rail producing days BSC Workington produced some longer track panels, but 60ft should be right for most situations.

Cheers, Mike

[tadpole]

It was intended to be the same length as carriages, so the whole train went "clickety-clack" at the same time.

I'm thinking: bullhead rail 57', flat bottomed 60'.

[Oldman]

Thanks Guys,
Since asking have found this link.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Track_(rail_transport)

May not have that wagon now as space is limited for bogie stock.

[EtchedPixels]

60ft in BR days and most grouping. Shorter in some earlier days. Not sure what the underground used. I have an idea it was shorter. A lot of narrow gauge uses shorter lengths.

[edwin_m]

I think 60' would be the deck length of the longest wagon that could go moreorless anywhere. 

I'd be surprised if track panels were ever produced very much longer, as they couldn't bend in the middle.  You might get slightly more length by overhanging them at both ends of a flat wagon, with lower flat wagons coupled in between, but this would have been much more work to load up and would have resulted in less track being carried on a train of a particular length. 

On the other hand rail on its own can bend and lengths of several hundred metres are transported on coupled sets of flat wagons, including through the Channel Tunnel.  Partly for this reason, modern practice is to lay down the sleepers then attach the rails afterwards and only relatively few welds are done on site. 

[tadpole]

Some trivia on the subject:

Several stretches of the Settle & Carlisle had two out of every three joints welded (presumably in situ), so 180' lengths. Was this an experiment? I never saw this anywhere else.

In North America, the joints on each rail are deliberately not opposite each other, to avoid creating weak points in the track.

Usually concrete sleepers go with CWR, however I remember in the 70s the (little used) slow/freight lines on the ECML were laid with jointed bullhead track on concrete sleepers through (for example) St Neots. Weird. Amazing how un-busy this line was in those days - didn't really need four tracks. It does now!

[edwin_m]

I think staggered joints are definitely frowned on in the UK because at certain speeds they might coincide with the natural frequency of particular wagons and set up a swaying motion which gets progressively worse.  Not sure why this isn't a problem in the States! 

There is something similar called cyclic top where the forward and back pitching motion of certain wagons (usually all passing at the same speed) can create a regular variation of the vertical profile, which then goes on to increase the pitching, which worsens the top even more, and unless spotted and fixed can get bad enough to cause a derailment. 

[dodger]

The states only use bogie vehicles which reduce the effect of staggered joints. It is worse in this country as  4 wheeled wagons are used. Having the rail joints opposite each other breaks the natural frequency of the suspension on each side at the same time. The old 10 foot wheelbase wagons with leaf springs derailed on CWR as there was nothing to break up the natural frequency.

Cyclic top is usually caused by poorly supported and possibly incorrectly spaced sleepers on each side of the joint. In europe  the joint is often supported by two sleepers under the joint.

To reduce cyclic top many sections of jointed track were change to CWR by cutting out the bent rail ends and welding the joints on site. Closure rails being used in the gap created by removing the rail ends. This may be the reason why some joints were welded on the S&C.

Dodger

[47033]

In North America the joints are staggered and yes the locomotives and coaches/wagons do rock back and forth. When I arrive at the final stop on my way home if I'm doing 15 mph into the station then the rocking is pretty bad. 12mph usually takes care of it. Also the fishplates over there have the bolts turned opposite for every bolt which the UK never used to do. Probably still don't now either. What I mean is the round head (rivet shape) on the inside and nut on the outside. The next one is round head outside and nut inside and so on. The reason being during a derailment the wheel flange will only shear off the nut on every other one. There's not enough stickking out on the rounded rivet side to get sheared off.