typical UK shunting engine for a 30ies layout

[chrism]

The third locomotive is in the livery of the fictional "Great Northern & Southern Railway", as it appeared in the film "The Railway Children" ... and I believe that the particular locomotive which featured in the film continues to wear this livery on one of the preserved railways somewhere (cannot remember which, offhand). Or is it the N2 which continues to wear this livery? Help me out here, someone ... but either way, this is not a prototypical livery.

It's still the pannier tank, at the Keighley & Worth Valley where the film was made.
According to Wikipedia the loco is currently a static exhibit in the museum at Oxenhope.

N2 no.1744 was also in the film, although I don't recall in what livery - that one is, apparently, undergoing overhaul at the North Norfolk Railway.

[crewearpley40]

D. E. Marsh was at the LBSCR 1905 - 11

[PGN]

D. E. Marsh was at the LBSCR 1905 - 11

Brilliant - thanks .... and his successor didn't change the livery.

[crewearpley40]

Here is a link on GWR liveries  http://www.gwr.org.uk/liveries.html   ,pretty sure its 1906 to mid 30s

[Steven B]

Just to add to and clarify a few points:

The brake van MUST be at the back of the train, and have a red tail lamp, so that signalmen can check the train is complete when it passes them

On an unfitted train the brake van would also have two side lamps, one fitted to each side of the van. This was so the loco crew could look back and check that the train hadn't split.

If the train was carrying something that might go BOOM (explosives ... petroleum ... ) then there must be two empty "barrier wagons" between any vehicle carrying something that might go BOOM and anything carrying people

It was the distance between a wagon carrying dangerous cargo, and other similar wagons or train crew that was important. A single bogie bolster wagon could be used for example.

Barrier wagons needn't be empty. You could use a loaded parcels van or wagon carrying farm machinery as a barrier wagon for a class A tank (flammable liquids with a low flash point such as petrol) for example. That said, some care would still be needed - a bogie bolster loaded with steel might not be placed next to a tanker in case the load should shift and the steel puncture the tank in the event of a heavy shunt of brake application.

It's well worth tracking down the rule books for the period and location you're modelling. Taking a close/detailed look at photos will also help although you'll end up grumbling as to why the photographer concentrated on the loco rather than the train!

Steven B.

[Train Waiting]

The green pannier tank has the 'GWR' lettering, introduced in 1942.  There were some well-documented survivals of this livery style well into British Railways days.  For a 1930s layout, either the early 'Great Western' or the 'GWR' roundel (often called the 'shirtbutton') style, introduced in 1934, would be appropriate.

Best wishes.

John

[PGN]

See ... I told you someone who knew more than me would be along soon, ready and eager to share their knowledge!

You gotta love this place 

[crewearpley40]

See ... I told you someone who knew more than me would be along soon, ready and eager to share their knowledge!

You gotta love this place 

for sure PGN . I WAS not sure on the exact dates but 1942 will do me. Either loco mentioned or the early LMS shunters would not look out of place

[PGN]

Indeed.

My own thoughts on 1930s shunting locomotives are:


GWR

57xx pannier tank is the obvious choice: RTR from Graham Farish or Dapol

56xx 0-6-2T available as a whitemetal kit from Langley, and now also as an RTR from Revolution Trains

Dean Sidings made a resin kit for the GWR 1701 class 0-6-0ST, which would give you something a bit different on a GWR shunting layout

The Dean Goods 0-6-0 (Union Mills) and Collett 0-6-0 (Peco RTR, and also available as a white metal kit) would shunt the yards of stations they passed through on pick-up workings.

If you can get one, Cav'ndish made a white metal kit of the 1101 class 0-4-0T to fit the super-reliable Arnold chassis (but make sure you get one of the later versions of the chassis with the sprung coupler, rather than one of the earlier ones with a vertical hook which will engage with "rapido" type couplers, but not disengage)

The Peco white metal Peckett 0-4-0T (also to fit the Arnold chassis) will serve as one of the Pecketts acquired from the Swansea Docks and Harbour Board, or if you are willing to build in brass you can have one of these from N Brass Locomotives

The Hurry Riches 0-6-2T types of the welsh valleys, absorbed into GWR stock at grouping, can be built using a conversion kit (Langley?) and an old Farish "General Purpose Tank" generic 0-6-0T (make sure you get one with a 5 pole motor, not one of the older 3-pole types). I am also experimenting to see whether it is possible to bash a Rhymney Railway outside-framed saddle-tank (either 0-6-0 or 0-6-2) by mating the GEM Aspinall 0-6-0 ST superstructure to a Bachmann Farish 08 diesel shunter chassis. These would, of course, have continued to work as shunters on the GWR after grouping.

For an impressive GWR heavy shunter, you might want to try to track down an example of the Ayers Mouldings kit for the 42xx class 2-8-0T or the Dean Sidings resin kit for the Barry Railway L class 0-6-4T.

The 94xx is, of course, very widely available ... but dates to the very end of the Grouping period (if memory serves correctly it was not introduced until 1947).


LMS

The Grham Farish or Bachmann Farish Jinty is the obvious choice, closely followed by the Minitrix 2F dock tank (which will need repainting)

A nice alternative is the white metal kit (GEM?) for the ex-LYR Aspinall 2F saddle tank (if you can get one)

In the days when they built RTR locomotives, N Brass Locomotives did a "coal tank" 0-6-2T, but since they built fewer than two dozen of these they are very difficult to lay your hands on

The 4F 0-6-0 (from Farish, NOT the uncontrollable Lima version), and the 2F, 3F and "Cauliflower" 0-6-0s from Union Mills, would not be out of place shunting the yard at a station they passed through on a "pick-up" working

For a Scottish layout, the Peco or N Brass Locomotives Peckett kits can serve for one of the G&SWR dock tanks absorbed at grouping (originally from the Ayr Docks & Harbour Board, which was absorbed by the G&SWR), and the Manning Wardle pug kit can serve as a Caley pug. If you can get them, Graham Hughes made a kit for the Caley 498 class shunter (almost impossible to shoe-horn the Minitrix dock tank chassis into it, though) and 782 class 0-6-0T. There is also the ABS Beaver white metal kit for the ex-HR "banking tank" 0-6-4T which would give you something a bit different.

ABS Beaver also did a kit for the ex-Midland "Flatiron" 0-6-4T. Although intended by the Midland as a passenger tank, I think that by the 1930s the LMS were using the survivors for shunting and local trip goods workings.

Another great rarity, but an interesting kit to build if you can get your hands on one, is the ex-North Stafford "New L" class 0-6-2T produced by Planit Engineering Services ... I believe only 50 of these were ever made.

If you must, there are also the Farish generic freelance  "General Purpose Tank" which came in LMS black and red liveries, and the even older "Standard Tank" with noisy can motor, but if you can get a good 'un they do give nice slow speed running.

The Graham Farish Poole-era inside-frame version of the 08 diesel shunter was turned out in LMS livery, which is a passable stand-in for the LMS experimental diesel shunters.


LNER

The second mass market N gauge British-outline RTR locomotive, built in the early 1970s, was the "buckjumper". Same noisy can motor as the "Standard Tank", but prototypically correct. Produced in GER blue and LNER green (initially without running number, later with), there are a surprising number of them still around and they are relatively easy to buy on Ebay.

N Brass Locomotives did a RTR J50 as a limited edition of 20 models ... 19 were finished in black (mix of LNER and BR) ... one was finished in LNER green but has since been repainted in GNR wartime grey (I know this because it's in my collection, and I commissioned the repaint ... ). Graham Hughes did a whitemetal kit for the J50, but this is almost as difficult to find as the N Brass RTR.

The first Minitrix British outline locomotive was a white metal kit for the ex-Great Central J63 0-6-0T, which fits their T3 chassis (later used for the Dock Tank). The moulds and masters passed through a number of hands after Minitrix stopped producing them, and there are quite a lot of examples of this particular locomotive out there. They are not all that difficult to obtain if you keep your eyes open on Ebay. Sellers generally don't know what they are ... look out for the distinctive curved cab sideplate.

The J25, J26 and J27 (RTR from Union Mills, J26 and J27 also available as Nu-Case white metal kits), and J38, J39 and ex-Great Central "pom pom" (also RTR from Union Mills) 0-6-0s would all shunt the yards at stations they passed through on pick-up workings. (The "pom pom" is also available as a Graham Hughes white metal kit.) For a Scottish layout, if you can get your hands on one, there is also the Graham Hughes J35 kit.

There is a J52 kit out there which builds into a nice model, if slightly overscale.

Kits also exist for the N2 and N7 0-6-2Ts which would not look out of place shunting.

There is a kit for the Sentinel shunter which is designed to run on a Farish DMU motor bogie.

Again, the Farish generic "General Purpose Tank" is available in LNER livery, and the inside frame 08 diesel shunter was produced in LNER livery.

If you want to push your date line forward a bit to the very end of the Grouping period then you can of course add the J94 "austerity" saddle tank, which is readily available.


SOUTHERN

For many years the only Southern RTR shunter was the Graham Farish generic "General Purpose Tank" (and the older "Standard Tank" was also produced in Southern livery); but now they have been joined by the Dapol "Terrier" (in both A1 and A1X varieties)

The excellent Bachmann Farish ex-SECR C class 0-6-0, and the Union Mills ex-LSWR 359 and 700 class 0-6-0s would all shunt the yards at stations they passed through on "pick-up" workings

There are white metal kits for the ex-LBSC E2 class 0-6-0T and E5 class 0-6-2T, which are both suitable to be put to work as shunters; and Dean Sidings made a resin kit for the E4 class 0-6-2T

The Poole-era Graham Farish inside frame 08 diesel shunter was also produced in Southern livery; but I don't think that the Southern experimented with diesel shunters until after the war.

For a slightly later period, there are also white metal kits for the Southern "American tank" 0-6-0T (introduced in 1943) and the Z class 0-8-0T heavy shunter.


I think that's about it ... but plenty there for you to choose from!