CCT vans

[CarriageShed]

Were they used in rakes or just in ones and twos with passenger traffic?

Dave G

On the SR, you could often find one or two between the loco and the carriages of an express, or tagged onto the back of the train. The S&DJR used to run an early morning service, collecting three or four from Bath and running them to Bournemouth West (possibly - I can't check right now), along with an early goods service, to be distributed amongst the days expresses.

[Neil of Longbeck]

Until around 1979 you could occasionally see a swinger or two (mainly CCTs or PMVs (Parcels and Miscellaneous Van), but on occasions a GUV) on the end of a service DMU for the conveyance of parcels; as far as I'm aware the last such services were in the Cambridge area. When such a train reached its destination and there were no shunters to move the van(s) then the DMU would be used to move the van so that in would be at the rear of a later service.

Follow this link (http://www.limitofshunt.org.uk/document-library/sectional-appendices) to find out how much could be towed by a DMU depending on the number and power of the operating engines, whether or not it was of light weight construction or the line it was operating over. This website is mainly concerned with BR's Eastern Region (Northern Area), but some of the information here can be transferred to the other regions. For example between Darlington and Saltburn a 2-car DMU with a minimum of 300hp can haul a tail load of not more than 25 tonnes. This equates to a single BZ, BGZ, BY, CCT, PMV or SPV (max loaded weight: 25 tonnes; empty weight 17 tonnes). A 4-car set with at least 1200hp could handle a tail load of up to 120 tonnes. A single B, Siphon G, BG and GUV equates to 40 tonnes max loaded weight (32 tonnes empty). However, for each failed engine the tail load has to be reduced by 35 tonnes.

Of course the CCTs and others would also appear in parcels trains - check out Flickr for examples (https://www.flickr.com/search/?q=parcel%20trains).

[talisman56]

On the Southern Region, the use of vans as 'swingers' was never seen on regular EMU trains, the usual sightings were as complete trains. One I have particular experience of was the afternoon down Bricklayers Arms-Chichester (via the ex-LBSC main line and west Coastway route) Parcels and Newspapers train which by the early 70s was class 73 hauled and formed solely of 14-16 Mark 1 CCTs.

AFAIR, none of the BR Mark 1 CCTs ever appeared in green livery, and a relatively small quantity of the bogie GUV (General Utility Van) version did; on the other hand, the ubiquitous SR CCT (with end doors) and PMV (Parcels/Miscellaneous Van) (without) equivalents never appeared in maroon (despite what one manufacturer would have us believe). All this would change in the late 60s when Rail Blue appeared, but it was possible to see vans in green/maroon well into the 70s as the periods between repaints could be very long. The things rarely got washed anyway, so sometimes it was impossible to tell what the original livery of a van was unless you were standing right next to it.

[dodger]

Until around 1979 you could occasionally see a swinger or two (mainly CCTs or PMVs (Parcels and Miscellaneous Van), but on occasions a GUV) on the end of a service DMU for the conveyance of parcels; as far as I'm aware the last such services were in the Cambridge area. When such a train reached its destination and there were no shunters to move the van(s) then the DMU would be used to move the van so that in would be at the rear of a later service.

Follow this link (http://www.limitofshunt.org.uk/document-library/sectional-appendices) to find out how much could be towed by a DMU depending on the number and power of the operating engines, whether or not it was of light weight construction or the line it was operating over. This website is mainly concerned with BR's Eastern Region (Northern Area), but some of the information here can be transferred to the other regions. For example between Darlington and Saltburn a 2-car DMU with a minimum of 300hp can haul a tail load of not more than 25 tonnes. This equates to a single BZ, BGZ, BY, CCT, PMV or SPV (max loaded weight: 25 tonnes; empty weight 17 tonnes). A 4-car set with at least 1200hp could handle a tail load of up to 120 tonnes. A single B, Siphon G, BG and GUV equates to 40 tonnes max loaded weight (32 tonnes empty). However, for each failed engine the tail load has to be reduced by 35 tonnes.

Of course the CCTs and others would also appear in parcels trains - check out Flickr for examples (https://www.flickr.com/search/?q=parcel%20trains).

This appears to be an Eastern Region standard. Back in the 1960's I was issued with the Western Region DMU guide. At this time all Western DMU's were heavyweight classes generally formed in 3 car sets with 4 engines giving an available power of 600 hp.

As far as I can remember a 3car set could haul a trailing load of 50 tons provided the gradient did not exceed 1 in 50. If one engine was isolated the load was reduced.

Dodger

[Geoff]

Did these vans ever get used for moving Horses or were other type of vans used?

[edwin_m]

The BR GUV looks to have been pretty much a stretched CCT on bogies, and also had end doors.  In the last years of Motorail GUVs were used to carry the cars.  On occasion a WCML push-pull fitted electric would be pushing the passenger coaches and pulling the GUVs!  There is (or was until recently) a Motorail GUV in Intercity livery mouldering away in the former Eurostar depot at Longsight in Manchester. 

[talisman56]

Did these vans ever get used for moving Horses or were other type of vans used?

Quick answer is no - there were special vehicles for transportation of horses.

[daveg]

Quick answer is no - there were special vehicles for transportation of horses.

This may help:

http://www.ehattons.com/stocklist/results.aspx?searchfield=horse%20box

Dave G

[Michael Hendle]

Hi
I can remember the service between Bournemouth and Brockenhurst via Ringwood,the train consisted of M7 CCT Maunsell Push Pull Composite and a Maunsell BSK converted to have a driving cab at the Brake End.
That wa in the late 1950's
Mike

[EtchedPixels]

Did these vans ever get used for moving Horses or were other type of vans used?

Quick answer is no - there were special vehicles for transportation of horses.

That depends if they had been packed or not. Lasagne goes in refrigerated vans.

Horses, sheep and cows had their own special wagons - as believe it not - did elephants. In older times dogs were also only carried in the luggage/guards wagons some of which had "dog boxes".

A few  CCTs were specially fitted to allow them to be in a push-pull train on the SR. The GWR didn't bother for its autotrains, but as a result the van always had to be on whichever end of the train was "back" and had to be fitted.

[daveg]

Did these vans ever get used for moving Horses or were other type of vans used?

Quick answer is no - there were special vehicles for transportation of horses.

That depends if they had been packed or not. Lasagne goes in refrigerated vans.

   

Dave G

[guest311]

Did these vans ever get used for moving Horses or were other type of vans used?

Quick answer is no - there were special vehicles for transportation of horses.

That depends if they had been packed or not. Lasagne goes in refrigerated vans.

   

Dave G

Or TESCO curtainsider containers, Tasty Equine Snacks Cheaply Outsourced