I have recently read several articles in the n-gauge press about kit building, modification and scratch building, and while many pics show excellent skills at fabrication, often the painting leaves a lot to be desired. Down at n-gauge scales when looking at high zoom pics - or unfortunately often even at a distance - the paint looks blobby, gritty and streaky and frequently does not not do justice to the often superb and inventive modeling skills shown in the mechanical work performed.
As some of the models I have seen show fantastic paint finish, it seems strange that there is such a wide prevalence of "poor" paintwork. These modelers all seem brilliant at fine hand-eye coordination  so what is the reason?
I have recently had a go at repainting some old GF suburban coaches into  Southern liveries (I know they are not really correct design, but they can be pressed into service until I get more time to build better) and found that it took a bit of hunting to get RailMatch paints in aerosol format, but persevered and finally got some post war malachite and early olive green for a few experiments. The "tar-brush" effect seen on many hand painted models did not attract me to brush painting.

I certainly found that once the paint had been fully mixed/shaken and the room temp was right, the spray finish was reasonably good. On one carriage I got a reaction to some earlier lining paint and had to wait until dry then lightly rub-down - turned into a saga and finally HAD to brush finish from a little paint sprayed into the aerosol cap. Even this ended up being not too gross compared to some recent paint jobs seen online and in the paper press.

It does seem that brushing enamel is often too thick for n-gauge fine detail, but aerosol is often hard to get and still the nozzle sizes seem to sometimes give too coarse a spray/droplet size. Maybe an even warmer room/longer shake and paint warming time would be better?

I guess the only answer is to use an airbrush and VERY fine nozzle/thin paint layers? Worth the expense I guess if you can get suitable paint colours/types. 

All this is of course great for carriage sides etc, but what about fine detail work? Not possible to spray mask this so how do you get an acceptable finish?

Any expert tips out there to getting smooth fine finishes on major surfaces AND fine detail work?



 

It is always best to remove the original paint from a coach or other piece of rolling stock.
There are a few posts on the forum telling you haow other members go about doing this.
As for airbrushing, you will find many clips showing the basics on You Tube.
However the first rule is a few light coats of paint letting it dry completely between coats is better than trying to do it in one coat.

I would recommend using the search function to look for posts containing air brush topics.

cheers John.

Personally I'm not keen on the idea of an airbrush or indeed aerosols, as I tend to react badly to dust and fumes.  Even using a lot of cash and space to obtain the recommended mask and set up a proper spraybooth I don't think I'd be comfortable.  For similar reasons I prefer water-based paints and have got some tolerable results by brush-painting buildings and applying weathering by washes or dry-brushing. 

However I've also seen some uninspiring pictures of N gauge rolling stock paint jobs - the N gauge journal seems to suffer particularly.  I feel it ought to be possible to do better - Vallejo acrylics for example seem a lot "finer" and less sticky than the traditional Humbrol enamels so may reduce the tar-brush effect - but I haven't yet plucked up the courage to try! 

Does anyone have any views on whether this poor impression is down to the painting itself or is simply an unflattering photo or the effect of the cruel closeup?  Is it possible to get reasonable results on N gauge rolling stock by brush painting? 

I've seen some good brush painted N stuff, and some truely bad spray painted bits too.

In super close up several times the real thing size brush painting doesn't really work well. I must admit to being in the couldn't give ... through a rolling doughnut category on this.  I don't observe my models from 15mm away. If I wanted to model brass letter boxes on house doors in detail I'd model in O gauge thank you

Re Edwin-M's query ref the reasons for  poor paint finish appearance in photos, often when taking  pics the light comes from the side if in macro mode - so showing-up the brush strokes/accentuating any unevenness. Any gloss of course is notorious for highlighting minor imperfections - as is flash photography-particularly if face-on and with modern small cameras, with the flash close to lens, causing glare and excessive contrast/variations in reflection.

A semi-matt or satin finish is most forgiving and often the most realistic given real life abrasion and dirt. Not sure I appreciate a lot of the amateur weathering attempts though - however if the modeller is happy it is not for me to criticize, just hopefully avoid some of the pitfalls myself.

I cannot afford to be too critical as I am just starting to have a serious go at (re) painting and scratch build modelling - but do appreciate helpful hints and tips.

I still cannot find reference to fine detail painting - eg. picking-out the brass doorhandles etc on carriage doors/coach sides. I recall standing on platforms and looking down the line of Southern slam-door stock and seeing a row of brass handles polished by use to a dullish yellow colour- most noticable, but rarely seen in n-gauge modeling (not surprising you may say due to scale).

However, Dapol and now GF are screen/pad printing minute lettering successfully, so potentially further detailing will appear in RTR and it would be nice if scratch building to achieve a visual impact that manges to reflect the key appearance attributes of the real thing. After all - this is one of the reasons for (my) modelling.

I guess for metallics, a fine metal (gold/silver etc) paint pen may do the trick if my hand is stable enough and the pen doesn't blob at the last moment and ruin the whole job! 

I have also been making some transfers using backing paper, my photo printer and spray lacquer. Just managed to get some decent looking Southern carriage decals. Unfortunately they don't adhere to satin paint too well (maybe use less layers of lacquer so have a more flexible transfer?) but I was loathe to paint gloss THEN satin/matt  lacquer over the top. I tried this once and the lacquer wrinkled the paint even though the same make/type.........

No one ever said it was easy!

Anyone seen an article about how they do this in the factory? Maybe a full write-up/pics  of the (usually) Chinese production lines or say a GF or Dapol "start to finish" concept-real life vehicle-CAD model-tooling-moulding -finishing - assembly article? These are all pretty standard processes so hardly "trade secrets" but would be fascinating (to me) as a designer/engineer to see the thought and actual production processes.

I think that the only thing I've ever spray painted were the NGF Wagons!  I tend to hand paint everything else.

This was one of my latest.  Everything you see has either been painted or had transfers put on the Class 60 body shell.  The windows were particularly hard to do, but turned out nicely in my opinion.  I'm thinking of changing the numbers to the proper sized ones.  I just used RailMatch paints straight from the bottle whilst painting.  I could be seeing this in a completely different light to everyone else!

Brush painting can be good but some paints MUST be thinned amongst other factors. Humbrol enamel isn't the best place to start anyway - I quickly learned that at 11 when I messed with Citadel Miniatures - acrylic paints are just so much easier and better to use!! I think there are a lot of other factors besides viscosity of the paint - the patience and skill of the painter, the brushes they use and the prep that's gone into the model beforehand. Cameras can be very critical, and not always flattering - as mentioned earlier, compact cameras with flashguns on up-close never make anything look very nice.

Re Dan,

Acrylics do look an attractive option - you can get big tubes of Daler Rowney system 7 very cheaply and they do dilute/mix well and give a satin finish. Got to get that viscosity right though or those brushmarks pop up again.

Having a go at some Peco SR pillbox brake vans today. Will try out acrylics for the body and spray primer white for the roofs. If I don't make a pig's ear of it will post some pics when finished.

For transfers - applying them to a very gloss finish often helps.  Johnsons Klear floor polish is often recommended, but the new version of it has been reported to have some varied results.  You can then apply satin or matt varnish over the top to seal the transfers.

Part of the problem is that photos are often blown up to sizes much larger than the original size and hence show the imperfections much more clearly than for larger scales.

Hi,
Interesting topic as I also get mixed results from both brush painting and aerosol/cheap air brush. What I have found is that any base coat applied to any model will typically be applied using spray paints as you tend to get a more even finish. The rest of the detail then gets brush painted. As mentioned earlier you have to be patient with spray paints as you have use thin coats.
The other thing that I have used a lot more is varnishes to protect layers. This is a tip that the pro modellers 1/35 et al and the military modellers use. Typically you apply the base layer or the layer you are painting, and once happy, cover with a varnish. Then you start the next layers of detail and paint. This way the base layer will never be compromised should you make a mistake on the next details layers, should you decide to remove the paint. It also makes removal of paint easier.

As also highlighted, gloss coats of varnish as well allowing decals to be applied, also allow very thin paint to flow into lines easier, should you want to detail or pin wash. Then a satin or matt varnish can be used if the gloss is too much in your face. The best compromise for me is Satin finishes on most stock I have
Its also strange but... the varnishes do hide a multitude of sins with the brush painting finishes which were alluded to earlier. 

I hope this helps.
Dil

I don't claim to have any great skill at painting models, but I weather and at least partly repaint all my locos + rolling stock (or will do when I get round to it) as well as building kits, and have been building non-railway scale models (ships, aircraft etc.) for years, so hopefully my advice will be of use to someone.

I mostly brush paint (airbrush only for primer and overall base coats) and use acrylic paints almost exclusively now as it is much, much easier to get a decent paint finish without brush marks. Having the right brushes also helps - I normally use these Langnickel brushes with the green handles for most jobs except weathering and very fine detail painting - as well as being inexpensive, they have the right balance of flexibility and stiffness (too soft and you'll get brush marks/streaks as the brush doesn't "spread" the paint enough, too stiff and it's hard to get neat edges and the brush tends to lose its point rapidly).

The brand of paint also makes a big difference, acrylics vary very widely in coverage, thickness and pigment density. I've found Games Workshop, Vallejo, Revell and Lifecolor to be the best. Humbrol are very mixed in my experience, some colours are good and others (especially the brighter shades, and much of their Railmatch range unfortunately, unless they've reformulated them since I last bought some) are terrible. Again in my experience, art/craft acrylic paints aren't much good for model painting except for weathering and scenery painting, I find they're too grainy and don't cover well unless applied thickly. From my experience, I would definitely not recommend enamel paints for brush-painting N gauge models, though airbrushing is fine - they're just too thick and gloopy. Acrylics "flatten out" and lose much of their volume as they dry.

I generally use Games Workshop/Citadel for painting livery (many of their colours are very close matches for railway colours despite the weird names, e.g "Mechrite Red" for LMS/MR Crimson Lake; they also all have a hard-wearing satin finish, being designed for wargaming miniatures), Revell for matt colours such as underframes, roofs and some wagon bodies, and Vallejo for metallics (such as coach door handles and loco brasswork).

For weathering, I use oil washes (black/brown oil paints heavily diluted in thinners) and weathering powders (artist's chalks ground up and applied with a small stiff brush). I find the latter are great for getting "airbrush-like" subtle, diffuse weathering effects, without the brush marks you often get when weathering with drybrushed paint. I wouldn't recommend an airbrush for weathering N gauge as the small scale makes it much easier to overdo things, and (unless you're a very skilled airbrush painter with a very good quality brush) many weathering features such as exhaust stains are too small to apply easily/realistically with an airbrush; weathering powders will produce a similar visual effect with much more control over the result, and if it doesn't turn out right you can just wipe off the powder with a damp cloth.

Quote from: E Pinniger on November 07, 2012, 06:43:50 PM
Games Workshop/Citadel for painting livery (many of their colours are very close matches for railway colours despite the weird names, e.g "Mechrite Red" for LMS/MR Crimson Lake

That's a very useful piece of information. Do you have any other livery colour equivalents from the Citadel Range? TIA, Brian

Quote from: kiwi1941 on November 07, 2012, 06:51:11 PM
That's a very useful piece of information. Do you have any other livery colour equivalents from the Citadel Range? TIA, Brian

Not many yet, being fairly new to railway modelling I've only recently started experimenting up colour matches in the various ranges, but there are a few I've found so far. From test painting on a scrap OO body shell, their "Goblin Green" is fairly close to LNER green, whilst "Knarloc Green" is also reminiscent of LNER green but a more muted, subdued shade probably better suited to N gauge models. Also, "Gretchin Green" is a lot like the paler green colour (Sherwood Green IIRC) on BR two-tone diesels.
One annoying thing is that Games Workshop changed their paint range earlier this year and all the names have now changed, I think "Mechrite Red" is now "Khorne Red". All the names mentioned above are from the old range (as they're what I use, I haven't used up my old paint pots yet!)

Another paint tip - the matt red brown from the Revell acrylic range is a pretty close match for the "bauxite" paint used on some BR and LMS wagon/van bodies. One of their greens (Bronze Green I think) is pretty close to BR Green.

Note that none of these paints are 100% exact colour matches, but they're close enough for me given factors like scale colouring, weathering, fading etc.!

Thanks for that extra info.

Quote from: E Pinniger on November 07, 2012, 07:08:19 PM
One annoying thing is that Games Workshop changed their paint range earlier this year and all the names have now changed, I think "Mechrite Red" is now "Khorne Red"

I just found their colour conversion chart at:

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m2320032a_Citadel_Conversion_Chart

and Mechrite Red is now Mephiston Red.

Best, Brian

Quote from: kiwi1941 on November 08, 2012, 01:54:16 AM
I just found their colour conversion chart at:

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m2320032a_Citadel_Conversion_Chart

and Mechrite Red is now Mephiston Red.

Best, Brian

Odd... Khorne Red is a much closer match tone-wise, just a bit darker than Mechrite (it's probably a closer match to Crimson Lake in fact). Mephiston Red is a brighter red with almost no purple hue to it (I use it for painting buffer beams, as it gives a more muted, "scale" look than pure bright red)

More close matches in the GW range: Snot Green/Warpstone Glow (told you the names were weird): SR Malachite Green, Regal/Kantor Blue: GER blue, Scorched Brown/Rhinox Hide: the dark chocolate brown on GWR and BR Western Region coaches. I think Dark Angel/Caliban Green should be a pretty good match for SR Maunsell Green, but would need to test some on a scrap model to say for sure.

Unfortunately for BR-era modellers, there doesn't appear to be a direct match for Rail Blue in the GW range! Mordian/Macragge Blue is the closest, but it doesn't have the slight but distinct greenish-grey tint to it.