Quote from: Bealman on Today at 09:19:10 AMSorry, Ben, but I don't agree with the 'cake decoration' view. I have been to exhibitions when I'm convinced N gauge models look more realistic. In fact on a trip to England I commented to @Newportnobby of this parish that OO stuff looks like plastic toys compared to N.

But, as with so much in life, the eye of the beholder, I guess. I have certainly encountered people here in Australia who would not give N gauge a chance to even show it's face. I'll name them too - BRMA, The British Railways Modellers of Australia. Shocking set of scale snobs.

As perhaps a more unbiased view, when my wife attends exhibitions with me she frequently comments on how "plasticy" and toylike larger scales often look, especially O Gauge.

Quote from: Bealman on Today at 09:19:10 AMSorry, Ben, but I don't agree with the 'cake decoration' view. I have been to exhibitions when I'm convinced N gauge models look more realistic. In fact on a trip to England I commented to @Newportnobby of this parish that OO stuff looks like plastic toys compared to N.

But, as with so much in life, the eye of the beholder, I guess. I have certainly encountered people here in Australia who would not give N gauge a chance to even show it's face. I'll name them too - BRMA, The British Railways Modellers of Australia. Shocking set of scale snobs.

Ben didn't say that was his view, merely that there remains a perception among OO gauge modellers that that is the case, TT is therefore 'better' for a subset considering downsizing, not having that stigma.

I do like TT:120, give it 20 years(!) for a decent range to exist then I'd maybe consider it! Interested to see what the powered model in TT from Revolution is!

I am aware that Ben did not say it was his own view. Maybe I didn't word my post correctly.

Quote from: njee20 on Today at 09:39:45 AM

Quote from: Bealman on Today at 09:19:10 AMSorry, Ben, but I don't agree with the 'cake decoration' view. I have been to exhibitions when I'm convinced N gauge models look more realistic. In fact on a trip to England I commented to @Newportnobby of this parish that OO stuff looks like plastic toys compared to N.

But, as with so much in life, the eye of the beholder, I guess. I have certainly encountered people here in Australia who would not give N gauge a chance to even show it's face. I'll name them too - BRMA, The British Railways Modellers of Australia. Shocking set of scale snobs.

Ben didn't say that was his view, merely that there remains a perception among OO gauge modellers that that is the case, TT is therefore 'better' for a subset considering downsizing, not having that stigma.

I do like TT:120, give it 20 years(!) for a decent range to exist then I'd maybe consider it! Interested to see what the powered model in TT from Revolution is!

I think Ben's view is a valuable one as more than any of us he has his "ear to the ground" as a manufacturer, and nothing he has said is a surprise to me.

I think a factor in strong initial sales of a given TT120 product is as much about supply. There is currently a very limited range across all manufacturers, and when anything at all that is new comes up there will, perhaps inevitably, be a strong initial demand from those who have chosen the scale.

However even taking that into account, a more careful look at products available in TT120 will also show A3s/A4s, Duchesses, HSTs, MK 3 and Mk1 coaches, Pullmans, Staniers very heavily discounted, suggesting that following those initial sales, demand is not then all that "deep" in spite of heavy promoting by Hornby and a few vocal "influencers".

 

Roy

Interesting also that having rescued Heljan from collapse, Accurascale are maintaining Heljans presence in TT with the deltic and bubble car.

And if I were Revolution, the powered model I'd choose would be a 37. It maintains the eastern region diesel focus, with Hornby's promised 31 and Heljan's deltic.  Who doesn't love a tractor?

Bob

Quote from: njee20 on Today at 09:39:45 AMBen didn't say that was his view, merely that there remains a perception among OO gauge modellers that that is the case, TT is therefore 'better' for a subset considering downsizing, not having that stigma.

I do like TT:120, give it 20 years(!) for a decent range to exist then I'd maybe consider it! Interested to see what the powered model in TT from Revolution is!

TT120 was Hornby's escape plan - it couldn't compete with what was coming in OO and was losing market share fast, it couldn't break into N despite attempts (don't think they really tried) so they needed something else hence TT120.  Establish your own gauge and the world is your oyster as long as you can convince people that it's better than N and perhaps even ignoring that N already exists and is a long established alternative to OO.

Perhaps I am being cynical, but the initial output in TT120 was definitely not of the refinement one might have expected and it's only with the most recent releases that the truly excellent models are beginning to appear interesting that might align with other manufacturers showing an interest forcing Hornby to properly invest, or maybe the entrance of other manufacturers indicates to Hornby the gauge is sticking around.

Ask a trader who sells TT120 and they'll tell you it sells more than N, but did they have a lot of N to sell before they stocked TT120 or they mainly sold OO.  Ask an influencer if they think TT120 is selling more than N and they will happily do so.  But in reality the only people who really understand the market are the manufacturers, Hornby is bringing new stuff to market but it takes time, they clearly are being careful not to flood the market, we're still waiting for other Mk1 variants though they are now coming.  All those sales of A3 and A4, still no Gresleys for them to pull, even the solitary LMS loco got Staniers to haul.

Given enough time TT120 will have a decent catalogue of locos and rolling stock, N gauge has a couple of decades of Bachmann, Dapol and Revolution developments to fill its layouts so there will remain a healthy secondhand market even if the new stuff remains stubbornly slow to appear.  But it's not all N gauge doom, we have had new items this years, Bachmann is going through it's catalogue and updating locos as well as releasing new, plus Efe with interesting additions as well.

Quote from: Bob G on Today at 10:23:42 AMInteresting also that having rescued Heljan from collapse, Accurascale are maintaining Heljans presence in TT with the deltic and bubble car.

And if I were Revolution, the powered model I'd choose would be a 37. It maintains the eastern region diesel focus, with Hornby's promised 31 and Heljan's deltic.  Who doesn't love a tractor?

Bob

Hornby already do the 37 in TT120 Bob - a fairly recent release.

Quote from: Roy L S on Today at 10:46:39 AM

Quote from: Bob G on Today at 10:23:42 AMInteresting also that having rescued Heljan from collapse, Accurascale are maintaining Heljans presence in TT with the deltic and bubble car.

And if I were Revolution, the powered model I'd choose would be a 37. It maintains the eastern region diesel focus, with Hornby's promised 31 and Heljan's deltic.  Who doesn't love a tractor?

Bob

Hornby already do the 37 in TT120 Bob - a fairly recent release.

Whoops. How did I miss that? It must have been me thinking about their new 31.
Mmm I wonder what it could be?

I wouldn't be at all surprised if one of the wagons is something like a BR 15ft wheelbase brake van, so far only a single brake van has been produced, and that by Hornby - a 10ft wheelbase LNER "Toad" which was part of the original launch (I have one).

Roy

Quote from: scottmitchell74 on June 06, 2026, 12:46:01 AMWhether I'm searching for British or American image N Gauge/Scale items, these days buying new from shops is cheaper than 2nd-hand from Ebay.

What's happening!? 

Is there such a dearth in N? And if there is, why aren't manufacturers filling the gap?

I'm missing something. 

I must admit I am looking to eBay less and less with people like Clarks Railworks and Footplate being so reliable and reasonable. Prices are getting silly, particularly British outline.

Quote from: Foxhound on Today at 01:59:12 PM

Quote from: scottmitchell74 on June 06, 2026, 12:46:01 AMWhether I'm searching for British or American image N Gauge/Scale items, these days buying new from shops is cheaper than 2nd-hand from Ebay.

What's happening!? 

Is there such a dearth in N? And if there is, why aren't manufacturers filling the gap?

I'm missing something. 

I must admit I am looking to eBay less and less with people like Clarks Railworks and Footplate being so reliable and reasonable. Prices are getting silly, particularly British outline.

I envy your proximity to those places. 

Quote from: Woodenhead on Today at 10:41:15 AMTT120 was Hornby's escape plan - it couldn't compete with what was coming in OO and was losing market share fast,

The OO market is saturated. Close to everything is already pretty much available - which is why there are now multiple manufacturers making new toolings of the same thing, and trying to use features to prompt sales - and the differences in said features and detail is getting smaller and smaller.

Cheers,
Alan

My impression of UK prices is that they are actually well down.

A lot of older stuff is not holding the values it used to, and even new tooling stuff seems down. As Roy says, there's some 'in demand' items, like 1st gen DMUs that always do well and command high prices, but stuff that used to command higher values is well down in my observations.

Reflection of our decimated bankrupt economy, and tax squeezed population IMHO - these are discretionary purchases, so are likely to be the first for folk to cut back.

Cheers,
Alan

Quote from: Dr Al on Today at 05:13:43 PM

Quote from: Woodenhead on Today at 10:41:15 AMTT120 was Hornby's escape plan - it couldn't compete with what was coming in OO and was losing market share fast,

The OO market is saturated. Close to everything is already pretty much available - which is why there are now multiple manufacturers making new toolings of the same thing, and trying to use features to prompt sales - and the differences in said features and detail is getting smaller and smaller.

Cheers,
Alan

And of course with new tooling there are new prices. I don't know if its a new tooling run, but Graham Farish coaches are now nearly £50 each!

Quote from: Dr Al on Today at 05:13:43 PMThe OO market is saturated. Close to everything is already pretty much available - which is why there are now multiple manufacturers making new toolings of the same thing, and trying to use features to prompt sales - and the differences in said features and detail is getting smaller and smaller.

We will see a few more fail soon I think, the duplication reduces volume for everyone and each tooling with a lower volume drives prices up. Volume is a massive factor in these kind of models and there probably have to be a few mergers or bought for a pound acquisitions of smoking remains. We've now got companies scrabbling to get volume off one another by making less and less relevant, or more and more duplicated products.

The UK is also now extremely polarised. More people over 65 own a home than under 50, only 25% of people under 45 own a home rather than renting and thus often moving around. Many under 40 only have a room in an HMO.

Unfortunately for volume production you need a lot of buyers of the same model, not a small number of very rich people as they simply don't buy enough. Fine for 5 grand etched brass O gauge masterpieces but not for mainstream RTR.

What we actually need is more of less models at lower prices, but that's not in the interest of any market player short term.