Have Dapol said how many of each variant they are producing ?

Quote from: Bigmac on Yesterday at 11:45:03 AMHave Dapol said how many of each variant they are producing ?

That's either something that's very secret to Dapol, or it's around 200. That used to be the minimum order if you wanted to do a special. Gaugemaster Collection locos and Osbornes limited editions seem to be limited to a run of 200. Farish Collectors Club seems to be 512 (IIRC) and they used to do 2000+ for a standard version. Dapol always went the small number many version route.

Bob

Not wanting to answer for Dapol, but a guess would be they can tell from pre orders which are the most popular variant so that would get a larger percentage of the overall run.
Like I say, that's a guess, though

I don't think the ones with Squadron numbers sell quite as well as the ones with West Country names. But I expect Winston, Fighter Command and Spitfire to fly (pun intended).

But only time will tell.

Yeah - 'Spitfire' was my choice.

Quote from: Bob G on Yesterday at 12:03:57 PM

Quote from: Bigmac on Yesterday at 11:45:03 AMHave Dapol said how many of each variant they are producing ?

That's either something that's very secret to Dapol, or it's around 200. That used to be the minimum order if you wanted to do a special. Gaugemaster Collection locos and Osbornes limited editions seem to be limited to a run of 200. Farish Collectors Club seems to be 512 (IIRC) and they used to do 2000+ for a standard version. Dapol always went the small number many version route.

Bob

thats interesting--i had thought 500---i thought that was usually the minimum production run. If its only 200 there will be some disappointed customers.  But i wont be one of them.

They may well be doing more. Who knows. Just that at sometime they will want to amoritise their 12 years of stalled designs and redesigns.

The smaller producers seem to try to do this by having multiple purchasing opportunities in the first release, with the aim (I suspect) of clearing the cost of the Dies in the first production batch (e.g. Rapido class 28, Rapido class 44, EFE Clayton, EFE J94, Sonic Prairie, Sonic J50, Sonic 56xx, Revolution 59, Revolution 128, various other Revolution EMUs). This runs the risk of buyers being picky and leaving some variants on the shelf (that's where pre-orders are useful to the manufacturer).

Farish seem to release a larger number of units of a smaller number of liveries in each batch, with the aim of selling those, even if they are not quite what the buyer wanted. They have the distribution network that allows this. As far as the retail shop on the street goes, most of them do Farish, some do Dapol, a few others do the boutique manufacturers, although the boutiques have got themselves into the retail outlets of the big box shifters, and so raise their profile there.

What is Dapol's strategy? Well distributed, and the latest releases/pre-orders seem to have many different livery options, so it's a bit of both, I guess. Joel is an accountant first and MD second, so he will have a good idea what's going to work.

Obviously no-one can profile the railway modeller that accurately, or we wouldn't see weird liveries with big discounts, but that's the game that the manufacturers are in. Obviously the UK market is not that large, compared to OO, and almost all manufacturers have OO as part of their portfolio. That's just common sense. I feel that the O gauge bubble might just have burst, or maybe its an ego thing, but the number of units made will be well down on OO and N.

Just my thoughts.
Bob

Quote from: Newportnobby on Yesterday at 12:51:00 PMYeah - 'Spitfire' was my choice.

Same - (pre-)ordered last night; it was the only option working the right areas at the right time in the right livery for the layout I have in mind to build.

And I can't abide Malachite   

Quote from: Bob G on Yesterday at 12:03:57 PM

Quote from: Bigmac on Yesterday at 11:45:03 AMHave Dapol said how many of each variant they are producing ?

That's either something that's very secret to Dapol, or it's around 200. That used to be the minimum order if you wanted to do a special. Gaugemaster Collection locos and Osbornes limited editions seem to be limited to a run of 200. Farish Collectors Club seems to be 512 (IIRC) and they used to do 2000+ for a standard version. Dapol always went the small number many version route.

Bob

Obviously I don't have this recently from the "horse's mouth" so to speak, but I do recall a long way back that at that point anyway Dapol production was said to be 300 for an individual loco livery variant per name/number.

Bachmann/Farish is 504 for limited editions/collectors club models per livery variant, 1008 for main production. Noticing that my "Collectors Club XP64 Class 47 is 11/200 suggests a further split with 200 sound fitted, 300 not, but no idea if that same split translates into their main range.

Regarding the suggestion that production batches per loco is weighted so that more of one type/name are done than another I would personally doubt it, I would suspect that each is a constant and the total orders across all models is the key figure of interest to a manufacturer to ensure an overall minimum order quantity for the model is met before production starts.

Roy

I would expect volumes for all items from all manufacturers are commercially confidential.

Quote from: Chris Morris on Yesterday at 04:01:54 PMI would expect volumes for all items from all manufacturers are commercially confidential.

Me too, but behind all of this "front" we are actually trying to persuade @Bigmac that pre-ordering helps keep the industry going. Well that's my back story.

Quote from: Roy L S on August 09, 2025, 04:42:29 PMOut of curiosity where did you get the information that pre-orders of the BoB were low? I would have though that commercially sensitive so would be very surprised if it came directly from Dapol.

Regards

Roy

As stated by Joel relating to the BoB in Dapol Digest on 2nd November 2020 replying to the lack of progress on the BoB - "I know it must be frustrating, but the simple facts are that orders have not been brilliant and it does represent a significant investment. I guess we could cancel it and put some certainty into the project, but we really do not want to do that and we all hope at Dapol, that when we do show something then orders will improve. The problem is this is a risky strategy, especially when there are more `sure fire' projects to do. All we would respectfully say, is please have a little more patience with us and we hope to have something to show early in 2021. My apologies once again." A few days later this was Joel's reply to another comment "I did not say it was dependent on pre-orders but the relative low level of pre-orders does affect the speed of the development. I hope this is understandable from a financial standpoint." These comments can still be found in Dapol Digest if you want to check their authenticity. I think this shows Dapol being commendably honest about things, the statements also show that Dapol are genuine enthusiasts who are trying very hard to provide for us N gaugers whilst ensuring they remain a viable business. So, no criticism from me. Most of Dapol's Ngauge models are great, in my experience they run well, pull well and last well. The steam outline models in the pipeline look to be another step forward in detail and quality so it will be good to see them when they go on sale.

I say to all at Dapol - Keep up the good work!

Quote from: Chris Morris on Yesterday at 04:25:13 PM

Quote from: Roy L S on August 09, 2025, 04:42:29 PMOut of curiosity where did you get the information that pre-orders of the BoB were low? I would have though that commercially sensitive so would be very surprised if it came directly from Dapol.

Regards

Roy

As stated by Joel relating to the BoB in Dapol Digest on 2nd November 2020 replying to the lack of progress on the BoB - "I know it must be frustrating, but the simple facts are that orders have not been brilliant and it does represent a significant investment. I guess we could cancel it and put some certainty into the project, but we really do not want to do that and we all hope at Dapol, that when we do show something then orders will improve. The problem is this is a risky strategy, especially when there are more `sure fire' projects to do. All we would respectfully say, is please have a little more patience with us and we hope to have something to show early in 2021. My apologies once again." A few days later this was Joel's reply to another comment "I did not say it was dependent on pre-orders but the relative low level of pre-orders does affect the speed of the development. I hope this is understandable from a financial standpoint." These comments can still be found in Dapol Digest if you want to check their authenticity. I think this shows Dapol being commendably honest about things, the statements also show that Dapol are genuine enthusiasts who are trying very hard to provide for us N gaugers whilst ensuring they remain a viable business. So, no criticism from me. Most of Dapol's Ngauge models are great, in my experience they run well, pull well and last well. The steam outline models in the pipeline look to be another step forward in detail and quality so it will be good to see them when they go on sale.

I say to all at Dapol - Keep up the good work!

Hi Chris

I think we must be at crossed purposes. While I don't recall that message from Joel specifically (agreed, refreshingly honest) I was aware that following the original announcement circa 10 years ago the BoB/West Country was made a "slow burn" as interest was not as had been hoped and that was for a variety of reasons, not least of which was the price it was proposed to sell at. Also, to be fair Joel's comments from 2020 relate to that earlier proposed model and the market conditions at the time.

Since then it is true to say that a degree of cynicism has continued in some quarters regarding this model with some people quite convinced that it would never appear.

However, circa five years have passed since Joe's comment above and during that period, as Adam has said a decision was made to tool a completely new model with all latest features and having little in common with the earlier design except the prototype depicted. While inevitably the level of pre-orders from customers/retailers is not something that a manufacturer will typically disclose (unless perhaps for a crowdfunded model needing to achieve a MOQ) I think it is safe to conclude that Dapol would not be moving the model through the various stages of development and giving an approximate release date unless they were pretty confident they would sell enough to meet the minimum order required from the factory.

Having personally seen the WC/BoB, Manor and Mogul EPs at pretty close quarters, based on current progress I would have to agree with what you say, these "new generation" Dapol steam locos have little in common with their predecessors in terms of design and quality, and when released I think will prove to be at least as good as the very best available from other manufacturers.

Regards

Roy

Quote from: Chris Morris on Yesterday at 04:01:54 PMI would expect volumes for all items from all manufacturers are commercially confidential.

I think it was actually Dave Jones who told me at that time anyway, Dapol loco production was 300 per livery variant. Of course I accept that was quite some years ago, and things may be different today but I suspect not markedly so.

As to Bachmann's Graham Farish, I can tell from my "Collectors Club" limited edition certificates exactly how many of what has been produced as they are quite specific. The Collectors Club Anchor mounted tank wagons was a run of 504, the Mk1 POTs were runs of 350 each of two running numbers, The XP64 Class 47 is split with 200 sound fitted and according to the Collectors Club website 300 without sound so as I said 500 in total (the odd 4 as I understand it was a "spares" contingency).

It is quite commonly known that main range Farish production runs is 1008 per livery variant regardless of model (loco, coach or wagon) and has been for a pretty long time. More recently we have seen more than one running number for a livery variant and what I do not know/cannot say is whether that is 1008 or 504 for each individually.

Regards

Roy

Quote from: Newportnobby on Yesterday at 12:51:00 PMYeah - 'Spitfire' was my choice.

So long as the motor doesn't live up to the name