Quote from: Chris Morris on August 09, 2025, 01:16:04 PMIt does seem that getting made in China is increasingly difficult.

Not that I've seen. It's gotten a lot more expensive for anyone not doing highly automated work because Chinese people increasingly expect to be paid actual decent wages and that's a good thing.

Quote from: Bob G on Yesterday at 01:58:59 PM

Quote from: Bigmac on Yesterday at 12:55:43 PM"They are proving to be very popular,"

how ?

Since Adam works for Dapol, I'm sure he has at least some insights that are based on fact rather than speculation, which the Forum seems to be thriving on at the moment.

i wondered if they were now available and selling well.

I'm speculating here, but it's probably an increase in pre-orders since the BoB broke cover last TINGS and was running round the Dapol demonstration track.

Even so, would be nice to see real livery examples this TINGS. Otherwise it won't look like any progress has been made over the last year (ditto Manor, Mogul, Ivatt...)

Quote from: Bigmac on Yesterday at 03:00:36 PM

Quote from: Bob G on Yesterday at 01:58:59 PM

Quote from: Bigmac on Yesterday at 12:55:43 PM"They are proving to be very popular,"

how ?

Since Adam works for Dapol, I'm sure he has at least some insights that are based on fact rather than speculation, which the Forum seems to be thriving on at the moment.

i wondered if they were now available and selling well.

Apologies for the confusion - I am referring to pre-orders.

Quote from: Bob G on Yesterday at 04:12:37 PMI'm speculating here, but it's probably an increase in pre-orders since the BoB broke cover last TINGS and was running round the Dapol demonstration track.

Even so, would be nice to see real livery examples this TINGS. Otherwise it won't look like any progress has been made over the last year (ditto Manor, Mogul, Ivatt...)

which is why i wont pre order anything--not since the Hatton Garratt.

Quote from: Bigmac on Yesterday at 05:47:21 PM

Quote from: Bob G on Yesterday at 04:12:37 PMI'm speculating here, but it's probably an increase in pre-orders since the BoB broke cover last TINGS and was running round the Dapol demonstration track.

Even so, would be nice to see real livery examples this TINGS. Otherwise it won't look like any progress has been made over the last year (ditto Manor, Mogul, Ivatt...)

which is why i wont pre order anything--not since the Hatton Garratt.

But pre-ordering doesn't cost you anything. It's a no risk activity.
By pre-ordering, at least my spreadsheet knows what I've pre-ordered...and likewise if I cancel the pre-order it's no longer there.

Some pre-orders are necessary just in case the manufacturer has a run on a particular item. I've seen situations when some OO models were sold out on pre-order and you couldn't get them unless you had pre-ordered them.

Not saying that's likely in N, but Revolution, Sonic and Rapido would certainly have you think that they won't make more than is pre-ordered, plus a bit. How much that bit is is down to the individual manufacturer.

Bob

Quote from: Adam1701D on Yesterday at 11:56:07 AMI am very excited about the Class 87s, which are due around the turn of the year. The retooled 56s should be following about a month later.

That's very good news. I am looking forward to running the class 56 in DCR livery !

Quote from: Bob G on Yesterday at 05:58:19 PM

Quote from: Bigmac on Yesterday at 05:47:21 PM

Quote from: Bob G on Yesterday at 04:12:37 PMI'm speculating here, but it's probably an increase in pre-orders since the BoB broke cover last TINGS and was running round the Dapol demonstration track.

Even so, would be nice to see real livery examples this TINGS. Otherwise it won't look like any progress has been made over the last year (ditto Manor, Mogul, Ivatt...)

which is why i wont pre order anything--not since the Hatton Garratt.

But pre-ordering doesn't cost you anything. It's a no risk activity.
By pre-ordering, at least my spreadsheet knows what I've pre-ordered...and likewise if I cancel the pre-order it's no longer there.

Some pre-orders are necessary just in case the manufacturer has a run on a particular item. I've seen situations when some OO models were sold out on pre-order and you couldn't get them unless you had pre-ordered them.

Not saying that's likely in N, but Revolution, Sonic and Rapido would certainly have you think that they won't make more than is pre-ordered, plus a bit. How much that bit is is down to the individual manufacturer.

Bob

pre order ( whatever that means )--but no deposit ?

Revolution - use the 'early bird' price when the order book opens for your item (you'd be mad not to) and pay either the full amount up front or 50% (Balance on despatch to you). Otherwise, you pay RRP less any discount offered by the retailer
Sonic - deposit paid when pre ordering (about £30)
Rapido - pre order your item with nothing paid until despatched to you from retailer
Farish/Dapol - when item is announced and appears on your retailers website you can order it/them without any payment up front and you get billed when the item(s) are despatched to you by the retailer

I do hope Dapol aren't relying on pre-orders to assess demand for the BoB. Given the remarkably long wait for it, I suspect that many prospective buyers are in no hurry to place one.

But surely there is no newly-tooled steam outline loco in N Gauge likely to sell better.

so the Dapol "pre" order method is nothing more than an expression of interest.

Which is meaningless.

"i might buy one if and when it is released--if i am still alive."

It's the mechanism they have. It was you who started the debate about popularity, you have an answer. Yes of course it's not a definitive metric, but shouldn't we be buoyed that a new model has healthy pre-orders? Ok a small proportion of people may not actually take the order, but I can't imagine that's overly widespread, and one presumes Dapol will have a lot of data that suggests pre-orders make up x% of sales.

Quote from: Bigmac on Today at 07:58:31 AMso the Dapol "pre" order method is nothing more than an expression of interest.

Which is meaningless.

"i might buy one if and when it is released--if i am still alive."

Then just don't pre order one, but don't be surprised if, when you get round to ordering the variant you want, there aren't any left

You guys have saved me the need to respond, and did it so much more eloquently.

Pre-orders in for five BB/WC in BR Green.
A lot of the ones that remained air-smoothed and had tenders still with rakes also retained their early crests for some time after 1956, so not a limiting factor in my need for spam-cans.

Best
Bob

Quote from: Bigmac on Today at 07:58:31 AMso the Dapol "pre" order method is nothing more than an expression of interest.

Which is meaningless.

"i might buy one if and when it is released--if i am still alive."

No, more likely Dapol will have been informed by pre-orders direct from customers via their online shop but also wholesale orders from retailers which will be based on their own pre-order sales/projected sales of these models. That information combined will, I am sure give Dapol a pretty good idea of the overall level of interest in the model.

In terms of deposits, as far as I am aware aside from Revolution Trains who give a very substantial discount on RRP for those who are prepared to commit funds to a project early, the only other retailer I know of who asks for a deposit (non-refundable) for their exclusive models (including Sonic) is Rails of Sheffield.

We all have a choice, pre-order or don't. In the case of the Sonic A5s for me it is a "no-brainer" as they are a "must have" model. Maybe I could wait until a couple of years after release and get them discounted, or maybe the popular liveries will have sold through by then, like many things price isn't the only factor.

Roy