Sorry yes, I realise now that I didn't properly bring you all in on the goings on of last night.

Well the 56xx began to run badly being slow or non-responsive to the controller outputs this was then compounded by the 57xx being extremely jerky, I left the latter running for well over an hour to settle in and it just got worse and worse.

I then for sake of a fair test with the same train in tow ran my C12 2-6-2T and it was smooth, consistent and responsive under the exact same conditions with the exact same controller as the other 2 had been used with (well except the pannier never got to the stage where I felt it was read to haul anything).

I read back through this thread whilst the C12 was running and thought while I don't mind returning the odd one back even multiple times to get a working loco as suggested with both of these playing a game of silly wotsits was this going to be the case with every locomotive? Is this something I realistically want to be doing buying a loco that I am suspecting won't work before it is even on the track?

I have said in the past that I have been spoilt by Kato and Tomix, but then I don't think I have as such, I don't expect the super low crawl that I get from a Kato steam loco and I do take into account that the majority of the locos in my Japanese fleet have for example more pickups than an 0-6-2T or 0-6-0T with more of them being tender engines - hence my choice of using the C12 as a fairness test loco. But what I do expect is when I pay over £100 for a loco is that the thing at the minimum works consistently and that the troublesome one is the novelty rather than what I am resigned to expect.

With all that in mind I calmly came to the conclusion that Japanese N with perhaps a timesaver (if I can ever work out how those work LOL) in US N would be the future of me with this scale, after all the definition of madness is to keep trying the same thing and expecting different results.

For a fuller picture the tally of locos that have failed upon arrival:

GF - J39
D - Hall
D - Hall
D - Hall
D - Grange
D - Grange
GF - A1
D - Pannier
D - Pannier
D - 14xx
D - 45xx
GF - Black 5
GF - Jinty
GF - 03
GF - 8F
GF - 8F

The 8F's were both the new tooling btw

now to be fair the list of non- U.K. locos that have not worked upon arrival and in similar fashion were no hopers that had to be returned for a replacement/refund as per the above list:

K - 2 car EMU the class of which escapes me right now so please see attached image of it's replacement:




So as you can work out from the stack of models I posted the image of last night it was very much the odd one out as far as the sheer amount of motorised models in my collection of Japanese rail goes.

I thank you all for your help once more and I am disappointed that it wasn't to be especially as the Sonic loco (lacking from the list as it did work beautifully initially) did seem to point to a marked improvement over past experience and clearly it is going to be a much more modest layout in OO but again whilst I have had a higher percentage than the Kato/Tomix stable fail in this scale it is still less then that of British Steam outline in N.

Is it the total end of me modelling the U.K. in this scale, I won't say that it is for good (in difference to my pre-counselling mental state as mentioned in the opening post) but I wouldn't suspect it would be steam sadly.

Thanks for that. I would say you have been exceptionally unlucky as, in about 120 purchases, I think I've only had to send maybe ½ a dozen back for replacement over some 30 years or more but that's no consolation to you.
Good luck in whatever you choose to model

I've never yet had to send any loco back (so far, touch wood), I think it is telling that my best performing one - by far - is the little KATO Pocket Line 4-wheel electric shunter I picked up a couple of years ago for £36 brand new.

Quote from: Great West(Midlands) Rail on August 10, 2023, 10:17:27 AMSorry yes, I realise now that I didn't properly bring you all in on the goings on of last night.

Well the 56xx began to run badly being slow or non-responsive to the controller outputs this was then compounded by the 57xx being extremely jerky, I left the latter running for well over an hour to settle in and it just got worse and worse.

I then for sake of a fair test with the same train in tow ran my C12 2-6-2T and it was smooth, consistent and responsive under the exact same conditions with the exact same controller as the other 2 had been used with (well except the pannier never got to the stage where I felt it was read to haul anything).

I read back through this thread whilst the C12 was running and thought while I don't mind returning the odd one back even multiple times to get a working loco as suggested with both of these playing a game of silly wotsits was this going to be the case with every locomotive? Is this something I realistically want to be doing buying a loco that I am suspecting won't work before it is even on the track?

I have said in the past that I have been spoilt by Kato and Tomix, but then I don't think I have as such, I don't expect the super low crawl that I get from a Kato steam loco and I do take into account that the majority of the locos in my Japanese fleet have for example more pickups than an 0-6-2T or 0-6-0T with more of them being tender engines - hence my choice of using the C12 as a fairness test loco. But what I do expect is when I pay over £100 for a loco is that the thing at the minimum works consistently and that the troublesome one is the novelty rather than what I am resigned to expect.

With all that in mind I calmly came to the conclusion that Japanese N with perhaps a timesaver (if I can ever work out how those work LOL) in US N would be the future of me with this scale, after all the definition of madness is to keep trying the same thing and expecting different results.

For a fuller picture the tally of locos that have failed upon arrival:

GF - J39
D - Hall
D - Hall
D - Hall
D - Grange
D - Grange
GF - A1
D - Pannier
D - Pannier
D - 14xx
D - 45xx
GF - Black 5
GF - Jinty
GF - 03
GF - 8F
GF - 8F

The 8F's were both the new tooling btw

now to be fair the list of non- U.K. locos that have not worked upon arrival and in similar fashion were no hopers that had to be returned for a replacement/refund as per the above list:

K - 2 car EMU the class of which escapes me right now so please see attached image of it's replacement:




So as you can work out from the stack of models I posted the image of last night it was very much the odd one out as far as the sheer amount of motorised models in my collection of Japanese rail goes.

I thank you all for your help once more and I am disappointed that it wasn't to be especially as the Sonic loco (lacking from the list as it did work beautifully initially) did seem to point to a marked improvement over past experience and clearly it is going to be a much more modest layout in OO but again whilst I have had a higher percentage than the Kato/Tomix stable fail in this scale it is still less then that of British Steam outline in N.

Is it the total end of me modelling the U.K. in this scale, I won't say that it is for good (in difference to my pre-counselling mental state as mentioned in the opening post) but I wouldn't suspect it would be steam sadly.

Quote from: Great West(Midlands) Rail on August 10, 2023, 10:17:27 AMSorry yes, I realise now that I didn't properly bring you all in on the goings on of last night.

Well the 56xx began to run badly being slow or non-responsive to the controller outputs this was then compounded by the 57xx being extremely jerky, I left the latter running for well over an hour to settle in and it just got worse and worse.

I then for sake of a fair test with the same train in tow ran my C12 2-6-2T and it was smooth, consistent and responsive under the exact same conditions with the exact same controller as the other 2 had been used with (well except the pannier never got to the stage where I felt it was read to haul anything).

I read back through this thread whilst the C12 was running and thought while I don't mind returning the odd one back even multiple times to get a working loco as suggested with both of these playing a game of silly wotsits was this going to be the case with every locomotive? Is this something I realistically want to be doing buying a loco that I am suspecting won't work before it is even on the track?

I have said in the past that I have been spoilt by Kato and Tomix, but then I don't think I have as such, I don't expect the super low crawl that I get from a Kato steam loco and I do take into account that the majority of the locos in my Japanese fleet have for example more pickups than an 0-6-2T or 0-6-0T with more of them being tender engines - hence my choice of using the C12 as a fairness test loco. But what I do expect is when I pay over £100 for a loco is that the thing at the minimum works consistently and that the troublesome one is the novelty rather than what I am resigned to expect.

With all that in mind I calmly came to the conclusion that Japanese N with perhaps a timesaver (if I can ever work out how those work LOL) in US N would be the future of me with this scale, after all the definition of madness is to keep trying the same thing and expecting different results.

For a fuller picture the tally of locos that have failed upon arrival:

GF - J39
D - Hall
D - Hall
D - Hall
D - Grange
D - Grange
GF - A1
D - Pannier
D - Pannier
D - 14xx
D - 45xx
GF - Black 5
GF - Jinty
GF - 03
GF - 8F
GF - 8F

The 8F's were both the new tooling btw

now to be fair the list of non- U.K. locos that have not worked upon arrival and in similar fashion were no hopers that had to be returned for a replacement/refund as per the above list:

K - 2 car EMU the class of which escapes me right now so please see attached image of it's replacement:




So as you can work out from the stack of models I posted the image of last night it was very much the odd one out as far as the sheer amount of motorised models in my collection of Japanese rail goes.

I thank you all for your help once more and I am disappointed that it wasn't to be especially as the Sonic loco (lacking from the list as it did work beautifully initially) did seem to point to a marked improvement over past experience and clearly it is going to be a much more modest layout in OO but again whilst I have had a higher percentage than the Kato/Tomix stable fail in this scale it is still less then that of British Steam outline in N.

Is it the total end of me modelling the U.K. in this scale, I won't say that it is for good (in difference to my pre-counselling mental state as mentioned in the opening post) but I wouldn't suspect it would be steam sadly.

do you think it could be the controller thats the problem ?

Not after testing the same set up exactly with one of my Kato locomotives of a similar size, infact since that day I have been having a last hurrah with my Japanese N before it is boxed away and stored out of the way pending it's future and not one train or locomotive has exhibited any of the symptoms that the Sonic & Dapol ones did even my MicroAce ones that from what I gather are not viewed as good model locomotives in their build/running quality.

Thank you for trying to help though!   

Well a year on nearly and just like that I reappear 

Since we last spoke I have dabbled in N a few times and the OOther gauge too (as well as trying TT:120 which was a massive mistake in itself for me!).

I have now got a nice shiny Ivatt 2MT, Class 31, Class 17 and a poorly Class 24 - not sure what has gone wrong on this one works on analogue not DCC anymore tried a known working chip to no avail and then when that chip went back in the original loco it was fine so I guess that is off to Bachmann as I am not sure that the Bridgnorth Station Shop would be wanting to deal with something brough in December! - but a super runner prior to that!

I know it is not the most popular Railway for some but a recent trip to the museum at Steam and a years worth of counselling for various MH issues sees me settled on the GWR and now choosing my gauge, I see that things are a little thin on the ground for that concern loco wise but have a "big spend" in my Rails basket right now and was thinking that at TINGS or similar I might be able to mop up other locos, I am thinking of the Castle, Hall & Manor with a cats hope in hell of the Union Mills locos turning up.

I see that there are Granges and 38XX to be had at Osbournes still.

I do hope that Dapol has improved in the past year and if not then my plan to not try to hard but just ask whoever I buy new from to test before sending and contact straight away if all is not well for whatever reason survives contact with the foe