Hi folks,

Initial conversations and ideas are starting for a new n gauge club layout.

Being a club means benefitting from many years of combined experience, but I was curious about hearing wider ideas.

Of course there is the group decision making and compromise to work through.

There is also the opportunity to go much bigger in scale than an individual effort.

But are the requirements and design process  of a club layout much different from an individual?

Is it the answer as unique as each club?

Interested to hear others thoughts

Cheers

At my club we are about 6 months in to building our N layout.  The main priority we set was that we want to run long trains of up to 8 carriages which means a station with long platforms to accommodate them and a fiddle yard with tracks long enough too.  Our layout is 2.8m x 1.2m so we've managed that. Secondly we wanted to incorporate an incline to a raised level - which is in our plan but we haven't started on yet and that will be part of the next phase.  Starting from scratch with the layout, it was also a no brainer to design it to be dcc. We've incorporated a continuous bus and soldered droppers to every section of track. Trackwork is Peco Code 80 flex track and Electrofrog points.  Points are driven by Cobalt IPs and control is with a Z21. The Z21 has worked out well with many members now having the app on their phones to drive trains.  The layout is made up of 12 board sections each 700mm x 400mm and the whole thing separates for storage on three trolleys.

We're making good progress and as of today we have a completed double track loop, plus the fiddle yard is complete. That will enable us to run some trains at our exhibition day next week.  After that it will probably take us another 9 months or so to complete the rest of the track work but we'll reach a point before that when some of our members can make a start on the scenics.

Our club probably differs from most in that we don't all work on one or two layouts as a large team.
Instead we have layouts worked on by two or three people at most aided, when needed, by others with specialist skills or knowledge when needed.
Our latest ongoing N gauge project has been developed by two of us who work well together.
My colleague Steve came up with the initial idea to include a wood yard, a viaduct and a layout on two levels.
He left it to me to create the track plan which we tweaked between us. Steve is the track laying and electrical expert so that was his major contribution whilst I, being an expert in absolutely nothing, got on with the rather coarse scenic work.

As you say, each club will have it's own unique methods and ideas so there is no right or wrong approach.
I suppose we benefit from having lots of space which allows multiple layouts to be worked on hence fewer members involved in each project.
Cheers
Martin

Keep it manageable - don't get too ambitious!   Members come and go, if the project is too large and the interested membership falls away a large layout can become a bit of a burden on the remaining members to keep going.   I've seen this with my former club's N gauge layout which started back in the early 90s (when I was still a member) and the "N" section" of the club was rather larger.  30 years on and it's still very much under construction but with far fewer members working on it now. Frankly it's just too big and heavy, but probably too far along to just scrap it and start again.   It makes an appearance every few years at the club's annual show and I pop along and help if I can, but I don't think it's ever been to other shows (as previous layouts did) and doesn't seem likely to.

Be prepared for a "medium" standard of modelling if you want to involve everyone and not just a core of experienced people all with the same vision for the layout. People have different degrees of skill and interests.  You hope that belonging to the club helps people learn and develop their skills, and of course one great thing about a club is the spread of knowledge. 

Build to the strengths of the club members.   Not got a specialist model railway electrician?  Keep the electrics very simple.  Not got a brilliant building maker?  keep the buildings simple.   Use the layout as much to train club members as to run trains..  this way the next layout you will have more people capable of taking on those roles.

Don't base a requirement on the layout that is owned by a member..  I know one club that relied on a member to provide their DCC control unit for running the layout and then they left

A club layout works best if people can be proud of the part they played in building it, so everyone must have something to do in the building as well as the running and had a role in decisions..  try to run a small elected comittee to oversee the layout planning and building.

If you are going to exhibit it.. assume you will need to rent transport (in case your local van driver who promises to do it is ill or leaves) and make sure that your members are capable of lifting it and setting it up with a minimum number of people for those times that everyone is already booked for that weekend, and also make sure you have enough members available to drive it to it's full potential.

Obviously you may well have to compromise on period/region etc.   

Don't let one person take over the role of designing and building their own personal layout..  it must suit the majority of the group, uninfluenced by a single person (or couple of people).

Remember people may leave or join during the process, so have the whole premise and ethos of the layout written down and approved by the whole club before you start

Don't overextend.

Finally..  never let one person only design and build complicated things like electronics or similar, in case that person leaves and also make sure that everything is labelled and written down so if a section fails, you have a book that tells you where that wire runs, what pins on connectors it goes through etc etc so a non-builder can troubleshoot

Graham

I joined a club in March last year, and helped at their show in August. I noticed many of the layouts attending were transportable by car so no hire van required. Some arrived in two cars, so again no hire van costs. The layouts with the most watchers seemed to be those with something moving all the time, preferably two trains and a bit of shunting. The club I'm in had previously exhibited their layout, but this required a team of at least 6 people and a van to transport it. This layout is now being recreated in a form suitable for members to transport in their cars, and with reduced complexity in the storage yard so trains can be running all the time, with other branch line and goods yard operations happening when enough operators are available.
My best advice is stick to the KISS principle, and make sure it is electrically reliable so it is capable of long periods of operation without needing attention.
Cheers

My club has at present 6 layouts in out in the club house and three on the shelves.
We generally work In Teams on the different layouts. I have part of my own layout as one of the six, but when that's finished no more private layouts will be allowed to be permanently in the clubhouse due to lack of space.
One of the layouts has been sold, and another is likely to go on sale soon.

We have one large layout under construction 12ft X 17ft, designed to be carried by in that teams cars. It currently has half a dozen people in that team.

We try otherwise to carry layouts in a single car.. but it's the teams decision.
When a new club layout is proposed, a team must state what they are going to do with their old layout, sell  or strip down to start again, or rebuild a section.

People do change from team to team or belong in more than one team. While Tuesday is the main club night, some teams chose to come in another day and or evening to work on their layout.

All layouts that are in the club are designed for showing including mine. The next club show / open day is 28th may in Hoveton .

In the ideal world, the club project should be something more than any individual could achieve alone, in scale through combined input and in standard by utilising individual skills and strengths.

There does however need to be a clear vision and focus which probably does need some leadership or coordination to stop individual members going off in their own directions. Unfortunately too many end up being fundamentally flawed in design and/or construction from comprising too much to try to please everyone.

When running for fun in the club rooms, it's fine to allow members to run whatever stock they want - anything goes - but for exhibition, you should stick to the intended theme/region/period and ensure that between the group sufficient appropriate rolling stock is available.

Have you considered a modular system like T-TRAK?

The Yorkshire Area Group of the NGS basically gets a different layout at each meeting, as different modules are brought by different members (plus a few club owned ones which stay). Each module is lightweight, and small enough to take home to make rapid progress.

More here: https://yagngs.wixsite.com/yorkshire-area-group/t-trak

Modular isn't for everyone for various reasons, but do give it some thought.

Ian M

Whatever layout you build, if you intend to exhibit it please do NOT run to  a real time timetable. whilst it may be ultra realistic, it must be remembered that exhibitions are not just for railway modellers but for the public, who bring their chidren who are the ones who will hopefully take the hobby into the future but their attention span is limited, so a constant flow of trains moving is the order of the day to entertain them and perhaps get them into the hobby. remember, that is where new club members ultimately come from!

Regards,

Alex

That could come as a shock to many clubs/individuals who appear to think shows are for them rather than the paying public

Quote from: Hailstone on February 22, 2023, 11:02:42 PM
Whatever layout you build, if you intend to exhibit it please do NOT run to  a real time timetable. whilst it may be ultra realistic, it must be remembered that exhibitions are not just for railway modellers but for the public, who bring their chidren who are the ones who will hopefully take the hobby into the future but their attention span is limited, so a constant flow of trains moving is the order of the day to entertain them and perhaps get them into the hobby. remember, that is where new club members ultimately come from!

Regards,

Alex

Absolutely agree with the sentiment, though is not something I'd say was particularly prevalent with Club layouts, nor N guage layouts in general... In my experience, I'd associate it more with certain supposedly 'big name' individuals, and mainly the larger scales...

Must admit I've no interest in watching layouts run to a timetable.  I get it that some sort of structure can help to keep operation interesting for the exhibitors, but so many times you see a whole bunch of people behind a large layout and not a single movement out front. 

Quote from: ntpntpntp on February 23, 2023, 07:59:10 PM
Must admit I've no interest in watching layouts run to a timetable.  I get it that some sort of structure can help to keep operation interesting for the exhibitors, but so many times you see a whole bunch of people behind a large layout and not a single movement out front.

Yes to a sequence - it can help pesent a balanced variety of trains, avoid conflicting movements and stop operators running their favourites all the time...
No to a timetable - in all but the busiest locations too much dead time between movements...

All our club layouts are built with shows in mind. Most are foam and thin ply bearers, with a hard flat top. The legs are also often a foam thin ply Sandwich.

The worst transportable layout I've seen visiting our shows needed 6 people to lift into the hall each section of board.... It was steel framed.

The cleverest layout I've seen, turned up late at our show, well we thought it was late.
They slid it out of his car, down onto its end with wheels then rolled it into the hall. It had two boards facing each other. They then were pulled up and out so what was the at bottom was the join. Legs dropped out of the outer edges then the two boards were pushed together the transport trolley forming the centre section supports. Assembled in about one minute!!!. A ten foot by two foot layout..

Yes I agree with others, something needs to be moving, the average non enthusiast viewer won't stay if there's nothing moving in just a minute. I've also noticed they rarely stay for more than 5 minutes unless asking questions.
The followers of this forum and others will watch for up to say 20 minutes. It's an interesting dilemma setting a programme.

For my N guage layout. I've built an 8 lane traverser, 4 trains each way, with slow running, plus some light shunting, and a branch line shuttle should give a suitable programme to cover both scenarios.