I'm considering a new Windows 11 Home 17.3" laptop to replace my ageing MacBook Air (Late 2010) - not for DCC purposes. 

As my last Windows machine was single-core, pre-Vista, I'm out of touch with the current Intel chipsets in use, and would appreciate information on components like RAM and SSD regarding battery consumption please. 

As a starting point, the MacBook has a 2.13GHz Intel core Duo, 4GB 1067 MHz DDR3 RAM and a 256 GB SSD. 

Having seen two laptops recently by the same manufacturer, I wonder which would be the better choice. 

The cheaper one comes with an i3-1115G4 3GH 2-core processor, 8GB DDR4 RAM, and a 256GB SSD.  Battery content is quoted as 32 Watt Hours, containing 3 lithium ion cells. 

The more expensive one comes with an i5-11357G7 2.4GHz 4-core processor, 8GB DDR4 RAM, and a 512GB SSD.  Battery content is quoted as 32WH, containing only 2 lithium ion cells. 

Either machine seems to meet the suggested specs by @JanW , @AlexanderJesse  and @Ossian on my recent Chromebook thread (thanks, chaps). 

Is there any way to make a quick approximation as to whether there will be an appreciable difference in the length of time a full charge will last please? 

Also, whether heat generated by either machine would be different, my MacBook frequently gets quite hot and noisy. 

In addition, would a larger capacity SSD really be of any benefit or not? 

Most batteries I've seen are specified in (mili)amp-hours rather than Watt-Hours.
(presumably the Watt Hrs is the Amp-hours multiplied by the voltage each machine runs at which may or may not be the same??)

All things being equal, I would expect the 2 cell and 3 cell of the same combined capacity to last near enough the same time from fully charged to fully flat when NEW. However the 3 cell should in theory deteriorate and lose capacity more slowly over time, and IIRC should charge faster.

As for disk size - is the SSD the only disk or is it a two-disk set-up, using the fast SSD for the system disk and a slower but cheaper traditional disk for data storage?
If it is the only disk, have a look at your current 256gb disk - how full is it? If less than half full, you probaly don't need anything bigger just yet. If its over 2/3s full, definitely go larger this time.
If it's just the system-disk with seperate data storage, then actually 256gb is probably double what you'll ever need!

About the disk space needed: it very much depends on what you want to do with your laptop.
I'm typing this message on a windows 10 tablet-like computer, 12" touchscreen and a detachable keyboard.
Very simple with only 128GB SSD.
But I have the following apps installed and these only use 72.5GB of disk space:
- mail (windows standard)
- Edge browser
- Chrome browser (only used to upload photos to my Google photos)
- Open office Writer (Word) and Calc (Excel)
- Xodo PDF reader
- two ereader apps incl the downloaded books
- Adobe photoshop express (simple editing of my raw photos)
- Irfanview photo viewer (doesn't 'improve' my photos when viewing them like Windows Photo does)
- iTunes to exchange photos with my iPhone
- Inkodo, transforms my tablet in a sheet of paper on which I can write with a 'smart' pen.
- Inkscape, 2D vector drawing software (used to design window frames etc. which will be cut on a silhouette cutter)
- Scarm 

I must add that I also us a 512GB micro SD card in the card slot that I only use to store my photos.
It doesn't have to be fast as long as I can save them because this tablet is my holiday photo editor

Edit:
Get rid of the pre installed anti virus software aas soon as younget your laptop and use the built-in Microsoft tools.
These anti virus applications slow a relatively low end computer down.
Make regular backups of your data and if necessary reinstall everything.
I had to do this once approx 15 years ago. Never had a problem since but I'm prepared....

Quote from: ten0G on August 14, 2022, 04:58:18 PM

Is there any way to make a quick approximation as to whether there will be an appreciable difference in the length of time a full charge will last please? 

Also, whether heat generated by either machine would be different, my MacBook frequently gets quite hot and noisy. 

In addition, would a larger capacity SSD really be of any benefit or not? 

Hello

The CPUs you mention are almost identical in terms of power consumption and max operating temperature, the i5 has slightly better graphics performance and should generally perform better as it has more cores. However this is one of the eternal debates because the CPU generally isn't a bottleneck in most computers. It's storage access speed that is the bottle neck.


Regarding SSDs, I'm probably throwing the cat among the pigeons here but as the space for expansion is limited in a laptop and it seems like you like to get the maximum possible life out of your computer you want to spec the biggest and best performing SSD you can for your budget. The amount of space applications is using is generally not going down nor is the size of images and videos as resolutions increase!

So the real question is what kind of SSD is it? Is it a SATA SSD or an M2 SSD?
SATA SSD is better than old HDDs but I've seen a 5-fold performance increase since replacing the SATA SSD with an M2 SSD in my 5+ year old machine with a "rubbish" Athlon processor. In fact it's now loading and running applications about as fast as a computer with a better processor and general specification which comes nicely back to my statement that the CPU isn't generally the bottleneck in a modern computer.


Regarding batteries I refer you to this very detailed Quora post: https://www.quora.com/Which-laptop-battery-is-good-a-two-cell-or-a-four-cell
But basically and I quote: "The number of cells by itself does not have a lot of meaning, unless you are comparing cells with similar characteristics - in which case more cells means a heavier battery and longer runtime.

Batteries are typically measured in milliamp hours or - better (milli)watt hours. If you are comparing batteries you want to compare watt hours - if you have a battery spec with milliamp hours, multiply this figure by the voltage to get milliwatt hours. To convert milliwatt hours to hours, divide by 1000."

Simon

Quote from: NScaleNotes on August 15, 2022, 10:23:03 AM
Regarding batteries I refer you to this very detailed Quora post: https://www.quora.com/Which-laptop-battery-is-good-a-two-cell-or-a-four-cell
...
Batteries are typically measured in milliamp hours or - better (milli)watt hours. If you are comparing batteries you want to compare watt hours - if you have a battery spec with milliamp hours, multiply this figure by the voltage to get milliwatt hours. To convert milliwatt hours to hours, divide by 1000."[/i]

I'm not convinced by that Quora post. Dividing milliwatt hours by 1000 will give you watt hours, not hours. To know how long a battery will last you need to know how much power is being drawn from it on average (i.e. the Amps or Watts). A 2 Amp-hour battery will deliver 2 amps for a hour, 1 Amp for two hours, 0.5 amp for 4 hours etc.

How long a laptop battery will last will depending on many factors. What's it being used for? Running a train-sim will use more power than just browsing the web for example. Size and type of screen? What's the screen brightness? Has Windows been configured for performance or power saving?


Personally, I'd go for the i5/512MB SSD combination.

Steven B.

Quote from: Steven B on August 15, 2022, 12:56:51 PM
Personally, I'd go for the i5/512MB SSD combination.

Me too.. I'm not a PC expert by any means but planning for extra capacity and processing power always wins in my book. Every time software is upgraded it seems to require more hard drive space and processing power to run it. If you run out of hard drive space the laptop will be useless. Get lots of RAM too. At least 8GB.

My work laptop is 18 months old Dell Inspiron 5402 11th Gen Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-1165G7 2.80GHz, 8GB RAM, 512GB SSD

Bob

Quote from: Steven B on August 15, 2022, 12:56:51 PM

Quote from: NScaleNotes on August 15, 2022, 10:23:03 AM
Regarding batteries I refer you to this very detailed Quora post: https://www.quora.com/Which-laptop-battery-is-good-a-two-cell-or-a-four-cell
...
Batteries are typically measured in milliamp hours or - better (milli)watt hours. If you are comparing batteries you want to compare watt hours - if you have a battery spec with milliamp hours, multiply this figure by the voltage to get milliwatt hours. To convert milliwatt hours to hours, divide by 1000."[/i]

I'm not convinced by that Quora post. Dividing milliwatt hours by 1000 will give you watt hours, not hours. To know how long a battery will last you need to know how much power is being drawn from it on average (i.e. the Amps or Watts). A 2 Amp-hour battery will deliver 2 amps for a hour, 1 Amp for two hours, 0.5 amp for 4 hours etc.

How long a laptop battery will last will depending on many factors. What's it being used for? Running a train-sim will use more power than just browsing the web for example. Size and type of screen? What's the screen brightness? Has Windows been configured for performance or power saving?


Personally, I'd go for the i5/512MB SSD combination.

Steven B.

Yeah, now you mention it dividing by 1000 would give kilowatts wouldn't it?
Oh well, the rest of the post is the important bit i.e. you can't just compare the number of cells to get an idea of battery capacity.

Plus as you say, how long you make that capacity last depends on what you're doing with the PC; if ten0G needs that 17" screen bright while he runs a folding app he will drain whichever battery he has much quicker.

Thanks, chaps

Neither option mentions an HDD, both are described as 512GB M.2 NVMe PCIe 3.0 SSD with an ESATA hard drive interface.  Resolution is 1920 x 1080 pixels. 

Main online uses will be weekly supermarket ordering (still effectively CEV), email, Forum access, and watching foreign language vids with subtitles which is why I need the larger screen.

Local use will be using track-planning software and appropriate graphics/artwork apps for scenic purposes. 

No gaming as such, or running simulations.

Normally, I too would go for the max spec I could afford but the realisation that I'd need an independently-powered machine was inspired by the power-outs caused by storms in the UK earlier this year.  At least I'd be able to do something while the battery lasts, which is why power consumption may be a more important factor. 

Quote from: ten0G on August 15, 2022, 10:36:36 PM

Normally, I too would go for the max spec I could afford but the realisation that I'd need an independently-powered machine was inspired by the power-outs caused by storms in the UK earlier this year.  At least I'd be able to do something while the battery lasts, which is why power consumption may be a more important factor. 

if this is the main reason then a reasonably large UPS (Uninterruptible Power Supply) will keep a cheap laptop running for a better time/cost quotient than getting a bigger internal battery or 'low power' Intel chips as the low power ones typically are either in lower spec laptops that end up being less efficient because they have to run full throttle to handle anything or are ultra-lightweight ones that have smaller batteries.

A UPS also has the added benefits of surge protection (very handy when storms interrupt the power) and you can usually get away with running a couple of devices off it for quite a while.

Quote from: ten0G on August 15, 2022, 10:36:36 PM
Thanks, chaps

Neither option mentions an HDD, both are described as 512GB M.2 NVMe PCIe 3.0 SSD with an ESATA hard drive interface.  Resolution is 1920 x 1080 pixels. 

Good, that's what you want for maximum performance.
SSD is basically the new HDD. You can still get HDDs but I'd only really use them for storage now rather then somewhere to put OS and application files that need to be accessed frequently.

Buying a laptop focused on battery capacity for the very odd occasion you may have a power cut which lasts longer than the battery life seems a bit unnecessary to me. Given the internet won't work in a power cut anyway, it just becomes a slight distraction for a bit. And what if it's not fully charged when there's a power cut? You can't leave it plugged in the whole time, the battery will be toast.

Quote from: njee20 on August 16, 2022, 09:27:23 AM
Buying a laptop focused on battery capacity for the very odd occasion you may have a power cut which lasts longer than the battery life seems a bit unnecessary to me. Given the internet won't work in a power cut anyway, it just becomes a slight distraction for a bit. And what if it's not fully charged when there's a power cut? You can't leave it plugged in the whole time, the battery will be toast.

If you've got fibre internet and have the router plugged into a UPS (see my previous post), it'll stay online usually. Not so sure about copper based internet, but IIRC phone lines have to have independent power so the phones would still work in power cuts.

For hours of "off the grid" power for a laptop I'd suggest a 12V lead-acid leisure battery and a 12V to 240V mains inverter as used by caravaners everywhere. Add a solar powered charger and you should be OK even in extended power cuts.

Alternatively, if the power's off get out a good book.

@ten0G do you need a laptop? A small desktop PC and large monitor would be better value for money.


Steven B

Quote from: zwilnik on August 16, 2022, 09:54:04 AM

Quote from: njee20 on August 16, 2022, 09:27:23 AM
Buying a laptop focused on battery capacity for the very odd occasion you may have a power cut which lasts longer than the battery life seems a bit unnecessary to me. Given the internet won't work in a power cut anyway, it just becomes a slight distraction for a bit. And what if it's not fully charged when there's a power cut? You can't leave it plugged in the whole time, the battery will be toast.

If you've got fibre internet and have the router plugged into a UPS (see my previous post), it'll stay online usually. Not so sure about copper based internet, but IIRC phone lines have to have independent power so the phones would still work in power cuts.

Phone lines don't have to be separate any more. When we had the power cuts the OP mentioned everything fell over; mobile phone signals, I'd be astonished if keeping your router powered would've kept it working. Point still stands though, it was a remarkable event; I wouldn't make a buying choice on that.