I'm still fairly new to all this, and I haven't yet embarked on any kit bashing of donor vehicles, but I'm trying to figure out which Farish steam chassis are suitable for what.   I understand there are significant differences between Poole era and Bachmann, and I know they've modelled quite a few different loco's over the years, but being in Florida means I've had *very* little opportunity to actually see examples.

I'm particularly interested to understand the wheel spacing on the 6-wheel main chassis used for their 4-6-0 ranges.

On the real loco's there is a small spacing difference between loco's like Black 5's and 5MT's, but was it a big enough difference that Farish (either era) modelled them separately, of did they just use the same chassis?

And was the same chassis reused on their 2-6-0 chassis examples too, maybe also 4-6-2?   Or are they all different chassis designs?

I'd appreciate any insights you guys might be willing to share.

Ross.

Quote from: RBTKraisee on October 31, 2021, 07:46:29 PM
On the real loco's there is a small spacing difference between loco's like Black 5's and 5MT's, but was it a big enough difference that Farish (either era) modelled them separately, of did they just use the same chassis?

Poole models all used a generic equally spaced chassis block (except a few late models like the Crab). This was used on all regions models, with just different wheels and cylinders. So a Farish B5 has exactly the same chassis block as a Farish Scotsman, and this was the same as a GWR Prairie and a Duchess, as well as a MN...

None had scale wheels - all were underscale for their prototypes, both bogies and drivers. This is why folks like me and others have in the past done chassis cascades, putting for example a Duchess chassis under a B5 (with the B5 chassis proving useful for a lower class like the 4MT 4-6-0), for better scale wheels and cylinders. Because the blocks and therefore attachments all the same, such conversions are feasible.

Modern tooling stuff is bespoke and largely pretty much to scale on both wheel spacing and diameter - these new tooling models have absolutely no common parts with the older toolings - they are only linked by the 'Farish' name on the box in which they come.

Cheers,
Alan

That makes sense.   The older tooling was more of a generic solution, the newer tooling is more accurate and there is a more diverse selection.

So for my County project, which should have a 7' and 7' 9" main wheel spacing, the newer GraFar Black 5 chassis - assuming it replicates the original's 7' and 8' spacing - is probably going to be the closest fit, as opposed to a 5MT at 7' and 8' 6".

Cheers,

Ross.

Quote from: RBTKraisee on November 02, 2021, 06:53:19 PM
So for my County project, which should have a 7' and 7' 9" main wheel spacing, the newer GraFar Black 5 chassis - assuming it replicates the original's 7' and 8' spacing - is probably going to be the closest fit, as opposed to a 5MT at 7' and 8' 6".

Possibly, but 6"to 9" out  (1/2- 3/4mm) is barely going to be noticable. Reason I say is there's a potentially much bigger consideration - the B5 houses a totally different generation of mechanism than the 5MT.

The B5 has a free rolling loco and can motor tender drive. The 5MT has a newer generation loco drive, with coreless motor. In many ways the latter is easier (for example a Farish Castle tender could easily be attached, as it's also from a coreless generation model, this would be bordering on trivial), and the coreless drive is generally a notably superior runner - indeed old Poole B5s are better creep performers than the tender drive B5 . Also the tender drive B5 has incorrect disc tender wheels - they should be spoked.

Cheers,
Alan

Now, that's the sort of insight that only experience can get you

I'd probably have to spend months collecting all sorts of bits and bobs - which is a really expensive proposition being on the other side of the Atlantic - trying to figure things like that out.   You've cut straight to the core of the issue right there, which helps enormously.



Ross.

Personally, I honestly think you should look into none of the above...

The most obvious option is the Dapol Hall class - this has as near as damn it the right wheels (6' vs 6'3" (3" = 0.25mm....nobody can see that!)), has a better tender starting point,  the correct style front bogie, wheels and cylinders. It is exactly the correct overall length. I'd guess the wheel spacing will be more than adequate also.

Making some parts to convert a Dapol Hall I'd have thought would be far easier than having to find essentially the same parts to convert something non-GWR based. I'm not sure if the boiler was visibly different (it certainly ran at higher pressure, and the smokebox door was larger diameter), but this is detachable on the Dapol model anyway, so could be swapped for a drop in replacement if really needed. Splashers could easily have a part that simply dropped over and hid the originals distinct ones for the single full length 1000 class type.

Indeed....re-purposing a Hall is exactly how they are going about it in reality....
https://www.county1014.org/about-1

Cheers,
Alan

 I think that 3" in diameter was the allowable difference between a wheel with a brand new tyre and the scrap size for a worn tyre.

So a loco with nominally 6' 3" wheels could actually have 6' wheels prior to shopping and having new driving wheel tyres fitted.

Martyn

Quote from: Dr Al on November 02, 2021, 08:10:40 PM
Personally, I honestly think you should look into none of the above...

The most obvious option is the Dapol Hall class...

Really? That's even better news - I actually have one of those right here, so I don't have to go through the expensive process of finding a donor vehicle on ebay and having it shipped across the Atlantic!

Awesome 

Ross.

Quote from: RBTKraisee on November 02, 2021, 10:51:45 PM
Really?

It's always worth researching thoroughly a class linage before jumping in - books by Brian Haresnape, and A J Powell provide a wealth of such detail to name but a few sources.

In this case the real life linage was Saint->Hall->Modified Hall->County. Immediately then this offers locos to go and check out as possible donors. Of course then the Hall offers an immediate way to get to the earlier 'Saint' also (even more clearly, given in real life the prototype Hall was a modified 'Saint')*.

Out of interest, the B5 and 5MT mentioned before are also on a line of linage - the 5MT is a BR standard version of the LMS Black 5. Moreover, the LMS black 5 itself had a wealth of variations through its production, one being an increase in the coupled wheelbase of 4" (to accommodate larger firebox) on later production locos - this evolution being carried on into the BR Standard which was 6" longer coupled wheelbase than the original Black 5s, one can presume for similar reasons.

Cheers,
Alan

* And yes, this too has been done in reality, with 4942 "Maindy Hall" being successfully recently re-imagined as 2999 "Lady of Legend"
https://didcotrailwaycentre.org.uk/article.php/63/2999-lady-of-legend