Don't forget the Gaugemaster Collection version in GBRf livery:-

https://www.gaugemasterretail.com/magento/catalog/product/view/id/82197/s/gaugemaster-gm2210501/

Am I right in thinking that all CL59's are confined to the Western Region?

John P

Quote from: jpendle on July 16, 2021, 08:18:35 PM
Am I right in thinking that all CL59's are confined to the Western Region?

John P

Nope, regularly get to Eastleigh, Botley, Ardingly, Allington, Fareham, amongst others on the Southern, various London depots and a couple in Anglia such as Dagenham and Chelmsford.
In the past the National Power / EWS /DB ones have worked in the North West of England too, most recently in the early 2010s out of Liverpool.

Jo

The EWS/DB 59/2s ran out of Warrington for quite a while as Jo says. Regularly seen at Arpley yard and used for a variety of workings particularly out of Liverpool bulky terminal for coal workings.

The 59/2s while based out of Warrington were used for a period between early 2001 and mid 2002 on the Tunstead - Northwich trains to allow for the 37s to be withdrawn from service prior to the service becoming a staple of class 60s.
I still remember 59206 climbing up though Altrincham it was going some and to be honest out performing the pairs of 37s it replaced but not nearly as pleasing sound effects!

Oh should also add that now under Freightliner while the fleet were mainly to be based down south on the Mendip contracts, there was touting for some to be used on Peak forest services and the "Jumbo trains" and while some staff were trained to operate and maintain them nothing as yet has come of it, but before I left for pastures new Freightliner needed all of them on the Mendip traffic as well as reinforcements from 66/6s

Quote from: steadfast on July 16, 2021, 09:24:14 PM

Quote from: jpendle on July 16, 2021, 08:18:35 PM
Am I right in thinking that all CL59's are confined to the Western Region?

John P

In the past the National Power / EWS /DB ones have worked in the North West of England too, most recently in the early 2010s out of Liverpool.

In National Power ownership, their locos were based at Ferrybridge (Yorkshire). Virtually all work was to the neighbouring Eggbrough and Drax power stations, mostly originating at ports on either the east or west coast - particularly Liverpool and Hull.

Quote from: PLD on July 16, 2021, 11:28:00 PM

Quote from: steadfast on July 16, 2021, 09:24:14 PM

Quote from: jpendle on July 16, 2021, 08:18:35 PM
Am I right in thinking that all CL59's are confined to the Western Region?

John P

In the past the National Power / EWS /DB ones have worked in the North West of England too, most recently in the early 2010s out of Liverpool.

In National Power ownership, their locos were based at Ferrybridge (Yorkshire). Virtually all work was to the neighbouring Eggbrough and Drax power stations, mostly originating at ports on either the east or west coast - particularly Liverpool and Hull.

The National Power ones mainly worked either limestone between Tunstead & Drax and coal traffic around Yorkshire (mainly between Gascoigne Woods & Drax, Ferrybridge and Eggborough).  However they did sometimes stray a bit further and had at least one flow to/from Wardley that took them to the Newcastle area.  Likewise in the brief period between EWS buying the 6 National Power locos and transferring them south to join the rest of the Mendip 59s, they also made a few appearances on the S&C working the gypsum trains between Drax and Kirkby Thore.

And if you want well off the beaten track, at least 2 Class 59s have made it to Scotland on test workings.  ARC 59104 in July 1991 on a loaded test freight between Mossend & Carnforth via the WCML.  Then 59201 with a rake of National Power coal hoppers toured various coal locations across southern and central Scotland for a few days during 1998.

Quote from: red_death on July 16, 2021, 09:59:23 PMThe EWS/DB 59/2s ran out of Warrington for quite a while as Jo says. Regularly seen at Arpley yard and used for a variety of workings particularly out of Liverpool bulky terminal for coal workings.

Yes was around 2010 and the six EWS Class 59/2's were  trialled on LBT circuit to replace the run down Class 60's but fortunately they were found wanting and soon enough Class 60's reappeared. Basically the Class 59/2's could not pull a skin off a rice pudding on the climb out of the docks and some of the drivers did not like them either. No surprised they disappeared.

Quote from: PLD on July 16, 2021, 11:28:00 PMIn National Power ownership, their locos were based at Ferrybridge (Yorkshire). Virtually all work was to the neighbouring Eggbrough and Drax power stations, mostly originating at ports on either the east or west coast - particularly Liverpool and Hull.

In National Power ownership the Class 59/2's were kepted to the Yorkshire MGR circuit, they never appeared at Liverpool Docks.

Quote from: 8A Rail on July 17, 2021, 11:25:50 AM
Basically the Class 59/2's could not pull a skin off a rice pudding on the climb out of the docks and some of the drivers did not like them either. No surprised they disappeared.

I find that surprising, given their power and tractive effort is markedly higher than a 60; and they're used on the jumbo trains in the hilly South West.

It could well be down to driving technique, transitioning from one type to the other.

Not to get too technical, but on a 60 the computer controlled systems work from a stand, adjusting power to each axle to get the train moving. Several people (who drove 59s daily until recently) have told me they don't like driving 60s because the technique they were taught is to open it up and let the computer control it, so they don't feel like they're actually driving it.

On a 59, the creep control kicks in at a low speed (2 mph perhaps?) so below that the driver has to get it moving by himself. Once moving, the system allows a small amount of slip to obtain optimal traction.
If you're into that sort of stuff, give EMD Super Series a search on Google

Jo

I seem to remember Class 66s being tried in various roles to replace Class 60s with dismal failure, but not 59s.

I confess I'm going on Wikipedia figures, but a 60 has a peak tractive effort of 474kN, a 66 is a paltry 409kN, and a 59 is a monstrous 540kN. For reference a 56 has a maximum of 275kN and a 37 is 247kN. But we digress! 59s are spectacular in the performance stakes.

Quote from: njee20 on July 17, 2021, 06:50:42 PM
I confess I'm going on Wikipedia figures, but a 60 has a peak tractive effort of 474kN, a 66 is a paltry 409kN, and a 59 is a monstrous 540kN. For reference a 56 has a maximum of 275kN and a 37 is 247kN. But we digress! 59s are spectacular in the performance stakes.

Nothing wrong with the odd bit of digressing also long as its related 

And a topic that my self and my brother were talking about recently was about locos or classes seemingly not performing when they should do.....

And his experience and mine matched up very well he works at DB control (was there from 98 in EWS days) and mine fixing locos which were "broke". There is one factor when it comes to locos that means they either fail or the service doesn't run which is nothing to do with the locos!

The drivers! Even in my spell at my previous employer it wasn't an unknown for a driver to fail a train and refuse to take it, now the bit that stinks about it is that in some cases you could predict it even the people at control could, with certain drivers making a fault appear because they didn't like the class or specific loco (66567 had a stigma attached to it and was frequent) it was rather obvious but these guys know the rules and how to use / abuse them.

Now go back to when the 59s were purchased by then EWS and they still had a lot of BR era locos (37/47/56/60) and a lot of drivers didn't like none BR locos especially peak forest based drivers, with them been referred to by less than polite names however with that although it was their job to drive them plenty found excuse to avoid it!

So while the class 59s were capable some drivers did what they could to avoid it, by failing them which on paper makes it look like the locos are not as capable or suited to the particular service, these days of course that issue doesn't really exist as its mostly 66s which are in effect an upgrade of the 59s (of course there are differences I know) but for cab layout, control and driving characteristics there isn't much between them!

Interesting to read members thoughts after my post about the Class 59's especially in the Liverpool area. Although understandably you may be suggesting that some drivers make any excuse not to drive a particular loco or class including the Class 59's but that was not the reason why the Class 59's were not upto scratch locally.

Due to the way Class 59's are set up including their 'software', the EWS Class 59/2's continually struggled to pull a 2100 tonne coal train from a dead start on an approx 1:60 / 90 climb for a mile and a half which included a couple of reverse curves too on the Bootle Branch line. The Class 60's done it continually with ease. Clearly it is the way the loco's are set up mechanically and software but although I acknowledge the Class 59's are good loco's and are able to pull heavy loads but in this instance, they were just not suited to the trains involved.

To add further info, GBRF even tested their own Class 59 (59003) on the 2400 tonne biomass trains out of Liverpool Docks and that was found wanting again. On at least one occasion, it needed banking assistance (but I don't think 59003 is ever been 100% right since coming back from Germany)! With the exception of the Class 60's, the only other loco that is capable is the Class 70 which has been tested on the biomass trains and it was a success. However, the 'economics' of using them was not favourable compared with the Class 60's.

Yes, 59003 was part of the publicity for the Drax biomass train and had a 66 on the back pushing!