I've just got an email from Hattons regarding their Warehouse Clearance Sale with up to 20% off on pre-owned items.

I thought it sounded quite good until I had a look at the listings for locos, am I the only one that thinks £70 for a loco described as a 'poor runner' is not much of a bargain?

I must be getting old 

How about £125 for a non-runner?

https://www.hattons.co.uk/670435/kato_126_0312_po_gs_4_4_8_4_4449_bnsf_excursion_pre_owned_sold_as_seen_non_runner_loose_cab_r/stockdetail.aspx

In my mind, non-runners should be £20 or less for the parts or for restoration, poor runners no more than £30.  They clearly need sorting out and you're taking a chance.  To ask nearly-new prices is just too much of a risk and no incentive to try for a bargain 

I had a thorough look through earlier today. Quite frankly there's better deals to be had on FleaBay. I thought Hattons pricing was crackers.

Ho hum.

Just had a quick look through - you are all correct, who would pay those prices for broken items? I've long thought that Hattons were taking the mickey on secondhand stuff and haven't bought anything off them for several years. Rails and Osborns have been my go to places.

Norman

Bear in mind that this sale has been on for days, indeed almost a week, so all the good stuff will have gone.

Indeed, I received a large box from Hattons today....

I totally understand the general viewpoint that their non-runner or faulty prices are too high. For many they are.

However, on the flip side, so often there is barely anything wrong with models they sell as being in far worse running condition than is actually the case, in my direct experience from buying from them. Indeed, I'm now totally convinced that they also sell on their returns from at lease some manufacturers here. I presume this is perfectly fine (they do state faults, but don't say returns). I've now had two Kato LNER Azuma 800s off them, the first had botched decoder install, fixed in minutes despite never having seen one before, the second was listed as a poor runner, and is nothing of the sort - indeed it's better than the first. Only issue was a pantograph part detached, but that happened in transit - just clipped back, job done, saved 30% on new price for essentially a new model - both of these can only believably be returns.

Everything I had arrive today was in the 'poor' or 'non runner' category, and all have been fixed within an hour. Only some basic servicing is now needed, something I do to any model, new or old. Admittedly I have been working in the scale since 1997 and the mechanics interest me a lot, so I am lucky to have generally got over being too phased by any work needed on a model by taking risks on non-runners over the years, so am willing to buy at higher prices than most (albeit still at a price that is credible for the item in given condition). I of course understand that many won't feel this way.

The broader issue too here is that new supplies of models are just not fulfilling market demand, as well as their prices rising, so both inflate the secondhand market, for working models and for those in need of work.

Of course I'm also still amazed at how previous owners can inflict so much damage on expensive investments......

Cheers,
Alan

I bought a DCC-fitted 'non-runner' Dapol 66 from Rails a couple of months ago. Figured that even if the loco was only for spares the decoder was £20 worth. Turns out the decoder was blown, it was missing a driveshaft, the bogie screws had been changed (one didn't fit so the bogie was loose) and the pickups were a mess. Admittedly all fixed, but it certainly wasn't a good price considering all of that, and frankly "non-runner" seemed a bit unfair; "total wreck" would have been closer.

Quote from: Dr Al on July 13, 2021, 08:35:10 PM
Everything I had arrive today was in the 'poor' or 'non runner' category, and all have been fixed within an hour. Admittedly I have been working in the scale since 1997 and the mechanics interest me a lot, so I am lucky to have generally got over being too phased by any work needed on a model by taking risks on non-runners over the years,

I'm rubbish at mechanical stuff, but I've still picked up plenty of discounted (due to faults of some sort or other) stuff  over the years  and had it going fine within a short while. It is in many ways up to the purchaser to take the risk if warned by the seller

Quote from: njee20 on July 13, 2021, 09:29:29 PM
I bought a DCC-fitted 'non-runner' Dapol 66 from Rails a couple of months ago. Figured that even if the loco was only for spares the decoder was £20 worth. Turns out the decoder was blown, it was missing a driveshaft, the bogie screws had been changed (one didn't fit so the bogie was loose) and the pickups were a mess. Admittedly all fixed, but it certainly wasn't a good price considering all of that, and frankly "non-runner" seemed a bit unfair; "total wreck" would have been closer.

Interesting - the only recent big fail I've had was also from Rails - a 'non running' 156 set. Fair enough worth a punt....

....except the reason for non-running was that it had the motor and drive and PCB all stripped out, none of which was stated in the description.

To be honest I'm still contemplating requesting a return on that one - burnt out would be bad, but at least complete - but no motor at all is getting a bit difficult to justify - they must have known. Never had anything like that from Hattons (indeed occasionally I've found a hidden decoder in a Hattons purchase).

Cheers,
Alan

Yes, same with the 66, it must have been pretty obvious that the bogie hung out of the loco when lifted up! I get the whole 'sold as seen', but it takes the mickey a bit!

Dragging us back on topic Hatton's never used to be as bad on their pricing, it's often lunacy now though on pre-owned.

Quote from: Dr Al on July 13, 2021, 08:35:10 PM
Bear in mind that this sale has been on for days, indeed almost a week, so all the good stuff will have gone.

Indeed, I received a large box from Hattons today....

I totally understand the general viewpoint that their non-runner or faulty prices are too high. For many they are.

However, on the flip side, so often there is barely anything wrong with models they sell as being in far worse running condition than is actually the case, in my direct experience from buying from them. Indeed, I'm now totally convinced that they also sell on their returns from at lease some manufacturers here. I presume this is perfectly fine (they do state faults, but don't say returns). I've now had two Kato LNER Azuma 800s off them, the first had botched decoder install, fixed in minutes despite never having seen one before, the second was listed as a poor runner, and is nothing of the sort - indeed it's better than the first. Only issue was a pantograph part detached, but that happened in transit - just clipped back, job done, saved 30% on new price for essentially a new model - both of these can only believably be returns.

Everything I had arrive today was in the 'poor' or 'non runner' category, and all have been fixed within an hour. Only some basic servicing is now needed, something I do to any model, new or old. Admittedly I have been working in the scale since 1997 and the mechanics interest me a lot, so I am lucky to have generally got over being too phased by any work needed on a model by taking risks on non-runners over the years, so am willing to buy at higher prices than most (albeit still at a price that is credible for the item in given condition). I of course understand that many won't feel this way.

The broader issue too here is that new supplies of models are just not fulfilling market demand, as well as their prices rising, so both inflate the secondhand market, for working models and for those in need of work.

Of course I'm also still amazed at how previous owners can inflict so much damage on expensive investments......

Cheers,
Alan

Would you be willing to publish what you have coming up for sale in the pipeline?

With the small production runs and if you've missed the first release then buying pre-owned is a necessary evil.

For those of us abroad, buying pre-owned from Hattons has a distinct advantage over evilbay. With Hattons the VAT is removed. With Rails it's via evilbay and so you pay UK and your national VAT. So for me in New Zealand a £100 nominal purchase would cost £83.33 + p&p at Hattons and £115.00 + p&p with Rails, quite the spread.

Alan

It's obviously a new definition of the word "Bargain" that I was not previously aware of

I think Hatton's watch the market very closely, and their prices fluctuate like the F.T. index.  As the price of new items has continued to rise, then in tandem 2nd hand prices have risen.

Some of the buy it now prices on ebay are laughable for poor/non-working items. 

DR Al---"Of course I'm also still amazed at how previous owners can inflict so much damage on expensive investments......"

that reminds me of the account i read--on here-?  or a facebook group a couple of years back:

a comparatively newcomer to n gauge had been given a brand new dapol A4 as a present--but on getting it out of its packaging it had  dislocated the drive shaft. He asked for advice on how to fix it. Then he found the fine loco to tender wires had snapped.  He then fixed it for good with a hammer.