Phew, I was getting worried that we hadn't had a thread like this for a couple of months.

As you were!

Quote from: Newportnobby on July 03, 2021, 10:12:32 AM
Why should a BachFar coach or wagon be almost double the price of a Dapol one? They're all made in China and are generally of equal quality, to my mind.

Simple, they operate to a different business model and market a coach at a price they believe it will sell at. They haven't gone bust so I guess they must know what they are doing and are able to invest in new models more regularly than others which you have actually alluded to below but you have included other manufacturers that aren't markedly cheaper.

Quote from: Newportnobby on July 03, 2021, 10:12:32 AM
Agreed, BachFar do still bring new models to market unlike Dapol's current policy, but so do RevolutioN, Sonic, Accurascale and, just lately, Kato and Rapido.

Quote from: Newportnobby on July 03, 2021, 10:12:32 AM
Time will tell if BachFar price themselves out of the market and I hope they don't, but disposable income has limits and does not increase at the same rate as their prices either. I have to purchase RTR as I am physically not capable of building kits.

They've been around a lot longer than most of their competition. Disposable income does have limits but as I posted earlier petrol prices have increased massively and I don't have a choice over buying that. I also can't support the argument that RTR should be cheaper just because you are not capable of building kits. Why is that the manufacturers problem? As it is building a kit up to RTR standards can easily work out as much is not more!

This is the end of my involvement in this pointless debate which will no doubt start again in a couple of months where people start complaining again that they don't want to spend £50 on a coach from a niche market whilst half the world is starving and living in poverty. People need to get a grip.!

We've done this numerous times and nothing has changed.

Tooling and decoration/assembly costs continue to rise. Comparing new tooled coaches with those from 10+ years ago is apples and pears.

We have much more choice than ever before but at a certain point there is a risk that more niche items will mean lower expected sales which means higher prices ie if you want that LNWR 12 wheel coach then chances are it will be a higher price than a Mk1. Sales volume has a big impact on price - one of the simplest ways to reduce prices would be to reduce choice and only offer a few very popular models but that would be a very negative impact!

For balance I don't think that our prices are lower than new tool Farish or Dapol and anything newly tooled is largely costing the same (as they come out of the same or similar factories).

As others have said, modelling has never been a particularly cheap hobby and models are absolutely not necessary items (though they give all of us a lot of enjoyment).

Quote from: railsquid on July 03, 2021, 10:20:19 AM
Phew, I was getting worried that we hadn't had a thread like this for a couple of months.

As you were!

I feel every new announcement thread should be accompanied by the moaners echo chamber! In fact, can't we just have that for people to go and repeat themselves?!

Quote from: Newportnobby on July 03, 2021, 10:12:32 AM
Why should a BachFar coach or wagon be almost double the price of a Dapol one? They're all made in China and are generally of equal quality, to my mind.

I think Farish's models are more detailed, and crisper than what Dapol produce (both are better than what came out of Farish and Peco's factories in the 1980/90s though).

Dapol's current range of coaches and wagons appear to be stuck in the early 2000 when Dapol released their first N Gauge models. Compare a Dapol Collett coach to a Farish Hawksworth. I think the Hawksworth is the better model - the detail on the underframe is finer and the glazing is better. With more bits to fit, the Farish model ends up more expensive (although that still doesn't explain the high price of something like the class 170!).

It's interesting to compare Kato's products to those coming from Farish or Dapol. Batch size will have an impact but most of the Kato models I've seen are designed to be clipped together - no glue, screws or soldering required which will significantly reduce the amount of labour needed to fit the component parts together. This will reduce the end price accordingly. However, compare the Kato class 800 to the prototype and you'll find some missing details (e.g. at the coach ends).

As for Farish's weathering - their latest efforts on the Mk1 TSO are actually surprisingly good for a mass market model - certainly better than Dapol's weathered wagons! I'd happily buy a weathered Mk2a based on the Mk1 equivalent.


Steven B.

Quote from: Roy L S on July 03, 2021, 09:17:33 AM
Those Mk2a's do look particularly pricey though, considerably more than the Thompsons released around the same time, and as I understand it, unlike the Thompsons do not even have close-coupling mechanisms...

Technical correction here:

The Mk2a suite from Farish do have close couplers. It's the more recent tooled Mk2f range that don't.

HTH,
Alan

I have nothing against these topic threads, there are new people on the forum all the time and these discussions will rear their heads from time to time as they are relevant.

Maybe those that don't like the repeated discussions and are just negative about the 'same old story' should think about the fact that they are posting along the same lines... If you don't like the topic don't interact... if you don't like the price don't buy...

I am thankful I didn't go O gauge as £2,000+ for a great steam loco and several hundred for a coach makes N look pretty good value... 

At the end of the day companies have to make money or they wouldn't be in the business, we should be grateful that there are quite so many producers as there are in N gauge as it is not exactly a huge market in the UK compared to the O'rrible gauge...

Don't mention Farish prices. It's a taboo subject around here 🤫

I'm afraid model railway prices are going through the roof in most areas. European N gauge locos now RRP at at least £130 or so each now

Quote from: Flange Squeal on July 03, 2021, 12:20:44 PM
Don't mention Farish prices. It's a taboo subject around here 🤫

No it isn't otherwise we wouldn't be having this discussion (again and again).

It isn't restricted to Farish either - Dapol's recent 50 or 68 and Farish's 31 or 40 were pretty similar in prices.

Let's face it this is all predicated on people's personal circumstances.

When I started work in 1984 I couldn't afford to spend 20 quid on a model. These days I can happily spend £200 on a sound equipped loco because as a percentage of my take home pay it's less that that £20 model from 1984.
I also don't have 3 kids to pay for anymore, and these days we both work and SWMBO earns more than me.

So from my perspective this hobby was too expensive for me in the 80's and 90's, and has gradually become more affordable.

This isn't meant to be a gloat, it's just the realities of life. We've all probably gone through similar experiences, but when you were born is probably as much a factor in Farish's pricing being too high as the actual prices themselves.

Regards,

John P

Quote from: trkilliman on July 03, 2021, 09:58:53 AM
What may come out of the ever increasing prices from Farish is that more people try their hands at making their own, whatever it be. This is where the NGS wagon kits come into their own. Perhaps they should consider producing some carriage kits?

Quote from: Newportnobby on July 03, 2021, 10:12:32 AM
I have to purchase RTR as I am physically not capable of building kits.

Quote from: thebrighton on July 03, 2021, 10:25:24 AM
I also can't support the argument that RTR should be cheaper just because you are not capable of building kits. Why is that the manufacturers problem?

This is the end of my involvement in this pointless debate

My comment was added purely as a reply to the comment above it. I AM NOT CAPABLE!
However, you probably won't read this

Quote from: Newportnobby on July 03, 2021, 04:59:36 PM

Quote from: trkilliman on July 03, 2021, 09:58:53 AM
What may come out of the ever increasing prices from Farish is that more people try their hands at making their own, whatever it be. This is where the NGS wagon kits come into their own. Perhaps they should consider producing some carriage kits?

Quote from: Newportnobby on July 03, 2021, 10:12:32 AM
I have to purchase RTR as I am physically not capable of building kits.

Quote from: thebrighton on July 03, 2021, 10:25:24 AM
I also can't support the argument that RTR should be cheaper just because you are not capable of building kits. Why is that the manufacturers problem?

This is the end of my involvement in this pointless debate

My comment was added purely as a reply to the comment above it. I AM NOT CAPABLE!
However, you probably won't read this

OK, you've dragged me back in to it.
First up you don't have to buy RTR, models are a luxury not a necessity; if you think they are priced too high don't buy them, if enough follow suit prices will either fall or Bachman will go bust.
Finally, and this will be my last comment, shouting in a post and sarcasm is hardly the actions you would expect from a moderator!

i have to laugh at the idea of paying 45 quid for a coach...i think long and hard before paying that for a running loco!. 

My issue is less with price and more with the short production runs that mean I feel I have to buy something as soon as it is released onto the market for fear of having to wait years for the next batch to be produced, if at all.