I'm glad I bought some mk2A coaches the first time around. Rrp for the recently announced mk2a brake compo is £49.95!

Ok that is blue and grey which costs more than maroon and it is weathered but even so that's a heavy price. Also I would rather weather them myself because the Farish weathering on coaches never looks like any coaches I have seen in service.

See https://www.modelrailwaysdirect.co.uk/rolling-stock-passenger-n/graham-farish-374-680b-br-mk2a-bso-brake-second-open-br-blue-grey-weathered/

The weathering on that looks unusually acceptable for Farish weathering, but it'll still mean people having a pristine train with a weathered BSO, which will look stupid.

As ever I can't get worked up about prices. Don't like. Don't buy. 

I'm selling more than buying these days.

They are there to make profit. If their products continue to sell the prices won't come down. If they don't, prices may reduce or they may decide to get out of the market.

I guess ebay doesn't help here when second hand examples sell for more than new.

Have you seen what Bachmann are asking for a OO Mk1 these days, £79.99.

Just glad I have all the stock I need (that's need not want) and feel sorry for anyone thinking of starting in this already expensive hobby.

NGM

Quote from: N_GaugeModeller on July 03, 2021, 08:42:12 AM
Have you seen what Bachmann are asking for a OO Mk1 these days, £79.99.

Just glad I have all the stock I need (that's need not want) and feel sorry for anyone thinking of starting in this already expensive hobby.

NGM

The great thing and also the worst thing about N gauge is that you can portray main line trains more accurately. Whereas in my bad old days of 00 a five coach train had to represent an express in N I have a ten coach train. This N works out more expensive than 00 for a given space.

I exceeded what I need many, many years ago so anything now is what I want so I'm operating on the truism..............

Quote from: njee20 on July 03, 2021, 08:20:48 AM
Don't like. Don't buy. 

However, there will come a limit beyond which I'm not prepared to go. I think Farish need to look around around at what others are producing and their prices e.g. RevolutioN, Sonic and Dapol

I have to admit I am also glad I have more than enough locos and stock for my needs, but conversely would say that the price is what it is.

Those Mk2a's do look particularly pricey though, considerably more than the Thompsons released around the same time, and as I understand it, unlike the Thompsons do not even have close-coupling mechanisms...

My most recent rake of coaches, said Chocolate and Cream Thompsons started with a purchase of five (I already had a B&C BG thanks to the NGS) I have since added three more by searching them out at (comparative) bargain prices to complete my rake which spread the cost.

N Gauge has never been a cheap hobby, it is simply that for a few short years in the not too distant past prices were very keen for amazing models (miles away from the Farish models pre-Bachmann takeover) and we got used to that, but reality has now hit, models of the quality of say the Thompsons comes at a cost. Manufacturers have to make a profit as does the whole supply chain from there to retailer and at least Bachmann tries to protect local shops by not retailing directly unlike others.

Nobody is entitled to be able to afford things (I would like a Tesla but can't) it is really just a case of making our modelling budgets stretch by (e.g.) availing ourselves of things like the bargain NGS kits and RTR commissions, plus (e.g.) the cheaper (if more generic) Peco offerings.

Roy

Quote from: Newportnobby on July 03, 2021, 09:15:51 AM
I exceeded what I need many, many years ago so anything now is what I want so I'm operating on the truism..............

Quote from: njee20 on July 03, 2021, 08:20:48 AM
Don't like. Don't buy. 

However, there will come a limit beyond which I'm not prepared to go. I think Farish need to look around around at what others are producing and their prices e.g. RevolutioN, Sonic and Dapol

Mick, you are quite correct. The will be though that yes, other manufacturers products may be cheaper, but they won't touch products already manufactured by Farish.

Quote from: Newportnobby on July 03, 2021, 09:15:51 AM
I exceeded what I need many, many years ago so anything now is what I want so I'm operating on the truism..............

Quote from: njee20 on July 03, 2021, 08:20:48 AM
Don't like. Don't buy. 

However, there will come a limit beyond which I'm not prepared to go. I think Farish need to look around around at what others are producing and their prices e.g. RevolutioN, Sonic and Dapol

Hi Mick

I don't think RevolutioN is a fair comparison, their business model and proposition is quite different, comparing the prices of their models that DO get to shops and sold through retai channels is very different. For example the difference between the early bird price for a Sonic 56xx (I paid £81.50) and the retail price at Rails of £109.95 - the BachFarish Jinty at a RRP of £99.95 stands up fairly well against that.

Dapol - reliance mostly on re-treads from existing tooling and compromises that reduce cost - e.g. new M7 Chassis with no DCC socket or even DCC solder pads. Notice that the 9F has been mistakenly referred to as a brand new model in some magazines whereas the tooling originates from about 2007! It is far from state of the art and absolutely no comparison to the Farish 8F which truly is and exquisitely modelled plus coming with features like Plug & Play sound. Price differential 9F about £116 discounted, 8F about £145, I think the extra £30 is easily justified.

Regards

Roy

Quote from: Newportnobby on July 03, 2021, 09:15:51 AM
I exceeded what I need many, many years ago so anything now is what I want so I'm operating on the truism..............

Quote from: njee20 on July 03, 2021, 08:20:48 AM
Don't like. Don't buy. 

However, there will come a limit beyond which I'm not prepared to go. I think Farish need to look around around at what others are producing and their prices e.g. RevolutioN, Sonic and Dapol

I agree. Rarely do I buy RTR these days as for me much of it has become just OTT price wise.

I started making my own carriages from brass etches around the time the NGS shop was having a massive clear out. I could envisage Farish nudging towards the £50 carriage, based on how each new introductions would involve a noticeable price jump on the previous carriage introduction.

At the end of the NGS shop sale I bought 8 or so sets of LMS/B.R. Porthole sides. I have never looked back and have learnt SO much about carriages. Making them gives you a real feel for their purpose within the train.

In total I have probably made around 30 carriages so far. With several sets of etches in the "to do" drawer there is currently no end to building in sight!   I have built enough carriages to form a Royal Scot train behind a Duchess, and currently making sleepers for the Night Scot.  Looking at an 8-10 carriage train where you have personally made all the carriages is very gratifying.

As I have said previously, however expensive RTR becomes there will always be people who are willing and can pay the asking price. What may come out of the ever increasing prices from Farish is that more people try their hands at making their own, whatever it be. This is where the NGS wagon kits come into their own. Perhaps they should consider producing some carriage kits?

As you have said Newportnobby, Farish would do well to look at what others are offering their products at. They will wish for volume sales but may end up scoring an own goal with their ongoing price increases.

"Sorry but here we go again".

Summed up in the title, why are we starting this pointless debate yet again? It is a hobby, no one is forced to buy anything but if it is an item you want please remember you are part of a very niche hobby and should consider yourself lucky that a company is prepared to invest in a product you want and is looking to make a profit on small runs so they can invest in future projects.

Sure, different manufacturers have varying RRP's but they work form different business models so you can't accurately compare. I reckon by now Bachmann are astute enough to know how much people are prepared to pay and price accordingly.

To put it into context I need petrol to be able to work. 12 months ago petrol around here cost 107p/litre, it is now 131p/litre. That is a far greater percentage increase for a product available from many manufacturers in a saturated market not a very small hobby to a finite number of people.

I need petrol, I don't need a coach or loco. First world problems!

Quote from: Newportnobby on July 03, 2021, 09:15:51 AM
I exceeded what I need many, many years ago so anything now is what I want so I'm operating on the truism..............

Quote from: njee20 on July 03, 2021, 08:20:48 AM
Don't like. Don't buy. 

However, there will come a limit beyond which I'm not prepared to go. I think Farish need to look around around at what others are producing and their prices e.g. RevolutioN, Sonic and Dapol

Furthermore look at more recent Revolution releases - mk5 coaches are £45 each (pre-order, they'll be more in the shops), so more then the Farish mk2s. The 92s sold at £175 each, which puts them beyond the price of anything Farish have sold. I'm a huge fan of Revolution products, and the re-run of Pendolinos is well priced, but IMO they're in exactly the same ballpark as the other manufacturers on price.

Hi Roy,

I apologise for using a 'David and Goliath' comparison (I'm quite sure no one wants to bring down the competition) but BachFar are, in comparison, a behemoth with all the overheads that comes with being such and maybe they look upon others as an annoyance but the fact is, across the board (locos, rolling stock etc) very comparable stuff is being produced with more regard to the customer base, and I'm not just referring to product there.
Why should a BachFar coach or wagon be almost double the price of a Dapol one? They're all made in China and are generally of equal quality, to my mind.
Agreed, BachFar do still bring new models to market unlike Dapol's current policy, but so do RevolutioN, Sonic, Accurascale and, just lately, Kato and Rapido.
Time will tell if BachFar price themselves out of the market and I hope they don't, but disposable income has limits and does not increase at the same rate as their prices either. I have to purchase RTR as I am physically not capable of building kits.

Dapol are a small company with a handful of employees in a building in rural Wales. Bachmann are a global company with premises in multiple continents, their own factories etc. Dapol do appear to have weathered the price rises rather better; notably they keep prices down on re-runs (as Revolution have done on the Pendolino), rather than keeping parity with new products, which is how Bachmann seem to operate. They have set a benchmark with the mk2F, so now they've re-priced the 2A to align.

New Dapol products appear to be going up markedly though, they've just done far more re-releases in the last couple of years.