546 has WIPAC lights though, surely an EWS donor is better? Assuming you're doing a 59/1 or 59/2.

Quote from: njee20 on March 29, 2021, 05:29:19 AM
546 has WIPAC lights though, surely an EWS donor is better? Assuming you're doing a 59/1 or 59/2.

Correct, but body panel wise its as close as your going to get, as I say even then it is miles away, you could go try a the Farish DRS 66/4 and with a bit of paint magic can add the marker lights and find a suitable donor body (not sure if 546 will fit nicely or not) that was you can with a bit of modelling remove the ladders and add the air tanks on the underside

Surely it depends which you're doing - as said, if you're doing a 59/1 or 59/2 why would you need the marker lights? Then the body is closer. Is there a difference between the different Farish models? Why is the FL one a better donor than EWS, given it has the wrong lights? I know they do the low emissions ones, but that's then got a spare door surely? What makes 546 the best donor? Only asking as I've got so many 66s and I can't find the other one I started! I've definitely got at least two 546s!

The under frame, bogies, and roof silencer are the differences that leap out at me. I can overlook the rest! In fact I can overlook the bogies, and probably the other two as well!

Both the 59/1 and 59/2 still have the old BR type 3 light units (Headlight, Marker and tail) at the moment at least anyway, hence why the chassis of the Farish 66/4 which while models the new LED type you can do what they have done to convert it by simply painting on the markers.
The under frame of this is the closest available, although the ladders for the engine compartment access would need to be removed as there isn't an external engine room door on the 59s, this is where the body shell from 66546 comes into play.

It doesn't have the engine room access door, but it does have the same size radiator inlet louvres fitted (in real life this follow on batch of FL 66s had the 59 radiator fitted due to overheating issues on the first batches both EWS and FL).

So using these gets you the closest from production models only to a 59 from a 66.

As I say unless its a 66/4 chassis and the shapeways body its to far out for me as the difference are huge in fact topside the its the cabs and radiator compartment that are the same, the engine and clean air room are completely different proportions and that's just the start of the difference

I'm totally lost, even looking at pictures I can't tell the difference between the 59 and the early 66 lights 

I'm less offended by an incorrectly sized radiator louvres than a door that shouldn't be there and wrong headlights (as they do look wrong on all the 66/4s, and not just missing marker lights. Plus I don't understand the rest of what you wrote about clean air rooms and what not!), blissful ignorance! if I find it I'll resume my EWS 66 respray!

How much easier this would be if someone just announced a proper one!

Right OK so there are 4 different headlight units on the class 66s BR era, HID version 1a ,1b and 2


So what Farish are now doing to cover BR era is use the tooling for 66s with HID version 2 headlights and painting the outer marker lights on, which makes sense as across all 66s the early BR type headlights are been phased out so no point tooling for them at great cost when they will soon be gone and you can spend less than a penny on some white stripes.

Headlight wise the reason you cant use the chassis for 66546 is because it has HID version 1a lights, as well as the fuel tank been wrong


Thats the headlight issue, but the chassis itself on the EWS models has the incorrect fuel tank (6000lt) not the smaller (5000lt) tank which you need so you can fit underside main res air tanks and if wanted attach fire extinguisher bottles on the chassis frame itself (although thats another world of fun as there is a sand box in the way), although they are big and red so would very easily noticed if missing IMO.

Now to the bodyside...
So as previously said the closest match I can find without the offending engine room door is the 66546 model (funnily enough a loco I have been working on to rectify the issues it has at work), it has the right size radiator inlet louvres unlike the EWS versions but as you say @njee20 you are happy to over look that..

But the proportions then for me are to far out to compare...


The class 59 has a larger engine than the class 66 room to accommodate the 16 cylinder high pressure engine it was built with, this in turn has reduced the clean air room space toward the centre of the locomotive, but also in the 2 blue boxes.

On the picture item 2 is the size of the clean air intake louvre on the class 59 which is overlaying the class 66 drawing, as you can see it is half the size and that because item 1 is a flat panel on the 59s inside of which houses the 1980s era loco control computer, which in a 66 is about the size of a PC!

Now the final bit......

The cab frontage starting at the top the horns on the 66s and something Farish have done better than Dapol the horn housing is protruding from the front roof beam where as on the 59s it is sank into the roof beam (Farish have it protruding Dapol models it is sank in!), then there is the high intensity top light which all 66s have where as the 59s don't

On 59s the lamp iron is mounted just below the handrail, where as the on the 66s it mounted above the headlight cluster on the second mans side, and then just to throw an extra curve ball (if your super detailing your front end) the 59/2s break line brackets are offset from when they had triplock coupling gear fitted!

I know I know I may be rivet counting but its the curse of playing... I mean working.. yeah working on these! I just feel that to make a convincing 59 out of a 66 is some serious modelling and alterations even when ignoring the completely different bogies (or trucks to give them their proper name), and I as many am hoping that there is a manufacturer out there willing to get the 59s out there as they do hold a rather unique place in British Rail History and well they are the class 66s dad after all!

Surely that's all Farish have ever done, given the first few batches all had "BR era" lights? They've not re-tooled.

How do you know the divide between the engine and clean air room is where it is? Is that the significance of the 'seam' in the bodywork? It seems you've drawn the demarkation there on the 66?

Looking at this picture:

59103 Acton Mainline. Fri 14th Feb 2020. by Stu Sharp, on Flickr

Versus this one (I know it's a real one versus a model):



What you're saying is that you've got the 'gap' between the door and the clean air intake...? It looks to me (and the angle's not great I admit) that the 'seam' in the bodywork is in roughly the same place on both though? It's certainly closer to the middle of the loco than you've marked the clean air room - so why is that relevant? Fuel tank and general underframe detail I agree needs some tweaking. Dunno why I'm having this conversation, I preferred my ignorance, although it's fascinating to understand the differences.

Quote from: njee20 on March 29, 2021, 10:45:43 PM

How do you know the divide between the engine and clean air room is where it is? Is that the significance of the 'seam' in the bodywork? It seems you've drawn the demarkation there on the 66?

I should know where the divide is  other whys my boss may have some questions  but yes on the 59/66 that outside seem is replicated on the inside into separate rooms, the clean air room has to be kept free from oil so no crud can get into the electronics or more importantly the brake system (Oil and brake frames is a bad combination!)
With the engine been around 6 foot longer on the 59 the clean air room is compacted, and is why the air tanks are underneath on the 59 and where as the 66 there is room for the air tanks internally.
Also to add into that you need the larger "barn" section to allow for engine lifts which even with the given space is very snug

Quote from: njee20 on March 29, 2021, 10:45:43 PM
Surely that's all Farish have ever done, given the first few batches all had "BR era" lights? They've not re-tooled.

What you're saying is that you've got the 'gap' between the door and the clean air intake...?

So the gap between the door and the clean air intake, boxed in red


This picture also shows those pecky fire tanks that 66s don't have at all

Yes, sorry, poor choice of words on my part, I meant how does one know where the divide is, not you personally. I don't doubt you know about tonnes of stuff that's on the inside, but that divide to the clean air room doesn't look to be as far out as you've said, it's significantly inboard of the bogie. I'm still content with the differences, although I can add the clean air intake size as a difference!

Luckily the fire tanks aren't red if you paint it a proper livery 

Anyway, I'll move on, this isn't actually a thread about the differences between the 59/66!

Hi Gang;

The more you look at a Class 59, the more subtle differences to a 66 start to appear. Notwithstanding radiators, silencers, fire extinguishers and bogies, most if not all panels are different in some way even including the ends with buckeye couplers and ferry hooks.

Good luck to anyone who attempts a conversion and many of the differences can be overlooked or concealed during painting. Out of the above, I would accept most of them.

What would be most excellent would be a forward-thinking manufacturer taking the plunge...

Later;
Stu from EGDL

I already have a class 59 based on a BH Enterprises kit on a Grafar class 50 chassis. I also have another on the go which will be sitting on a class 66 chassis, I know there are bogie differences but am going to accept that as it is to be honest.

Best wishes
Simon

Suspect this may be Kernow being optimistic for 2021 but good to know that these are still potentially on the docket for delivery in the future

https://www.kernowmodelrailcentre.com/p/38344/2D-005-000-Dapol-Class-59-Diesel-Locomotive-number-59-002

Quote from: gavin on April 20, 2021, 06:36:25 PM
Suspect this may be Kernow being optimistic for 2021 but good to know that these are still potentially on the docket for delivery in the future

https://www.kernowmodelrailcentre.com/p/38344/2D-005-000-Dapol-Class-59-Diesel-Locomotive-number-59-002

Hattons and Rails have them too. To name but two.

https://www.hattons.co.uk/stocklist/siteresults.aspx?searchfield=dapol%20class%2059
https://railsofsheffield.com/manufacturer-dapol-JJJM75?Personalise=false&searchTerm=&Category=Class+59&Gauge=N+Gauge&SortMethod=ProductCodeAscending&PageSize=24

Have done so for about 7 years
Bob

More like 9 years.

And if the models are that cheap I will be astonished.

And happy!

Skyline2uk

9 years.........blimey,  what was I doing in 2012?

OMG, how young I looked, I had hair then..