Quote from: class37025 on November 13, 2019, 02:38:52 PM

Quote from: The Q on November 13, 2019, 02:01:30 PM
Never seen detector van except on TV, thats what comes of liviing in the middle of nowhewre or on a military base (where in barracks i had to have the licence taped to the TV or I'd be charged by the RAF..)

just think of it as a contribution to a Typhoon 

it was tornados, harriers and Phantoms in my day...

What if I watch on my mobile or iPad? It's not a TV and I've probably paid for the luxury of squinting at a small screen that I can't see properly

Quote from: keithfre on November 13, 2019, 02:27:50 PM
Here in Holland they abolished the TV licence many years ago and decided to fund TV from general taxation, based on the argument that virtually everyone watches TV.

off topic, but I seem to remember that years ago there was a suggestion the car tax would be got rid of, and an addition made to the cost of fuel to cover that and basic insurance .....

so everyone who filled up their car would be taxed, and also have third party insurance ....

no untaxed drivers, no uninsured drivers ... simples

you'd then go to an insurance company to increase your insurance to what you wanted, fire and theft, comprehensive etc....

sounded a great idea, those who used the roads the most, contributed the most ...

needless to say, our idiot MPs soon scuppered that idea, too many of their friends would be out of pocket ...

so now, thousands of untaxed and uninsured vehicles on the roads, and not much chance of being caught cause no police patrols...

don't you just love  politicians 

So when I posted this I didn't know that Analog had been turned off.

I was envisioning a couple in their 90's watching BBC1 on their B&W TV, who wouldn't be reading online news anytime soon.

As opposed to a couple in their 20's watching on their digital gizmo's, deliberately buying the wrong licence because it's cheaper, and then not replying to the Guardian to explain they were on the fiddle.

Ho Hum.

John P

There is no such thing as the 'detector van'.

The simple FOI request showing how many convictions there's been from folk caught via detector van proves this: there have been none, zero, zip.

At one point the army supposedly asked the Beeb what technology they were using to do this, as they didn't have anything that could do the same!

Says it all - physics bunk.

Cheers,
Alan

Quote from: Intercity on November 13, 2019, 02:58:49 PM
What if I watch on my mobile or iPad? It's not a TV and I've probably paid for the luxury of squinting at a small screen that I can't see properly

If you never watch live TV then you don't need one (eg you only watch catch up services or streaming services), if you watch live you need a licence, regardless of device.

Quote from: Dr Al on November 13, 2019, 04:28:53 PM
There is no such thing as the 'detector van'.

The simple FOI request showing how many convictions there's been from folk caught via detector van proves this: there have been none, zero, zip.

At one point the army supposedly asked the Beeb what technology they were using to do this, as they didn't have anything that could do the same!

Says it all - physics bunk.

Cheers,
Alan

As I understand it the old detector vans picked up the fields of the magnetic scan coils on the old CRT TVs.  They disappeared as fast as plasma then LCD display TVs arrived.

Quote from: Snowwolflair on November 13, 2019, 06:07:09 PM
As I understand it the old detector vans picked up the fields of the magnetic scan coils on the old CRT TVs. 

I struggle to believe that, nothing scientific has ever been shown, even on request. Moreover, from a physics point of view, magnetism can be even more difficult to detect than other detectable signals - it falls off with distance cubed (for a basic dipole at least), so the physics sounds against what they claim - at 10 metres away a signal will be a factor of 1000 lower than at 1 metre away (and the van would be on the street, so would be this kind of distance away). That's before one considers any deformation in the magnetic field provided by metallic objects in the path (window frames, cars, etc).

If they did exist, surely there'd have been more evidence, primarily that of genuine convictions based on evidence provided by the  said apparatus (I mean if the Beeb got folk convicted then they'd have conveyed that surely to show they can enforce it and come after folks). In fairness, I'm sure vans with this written on them did exist, but only to scare folk into paying, and very little equipment in the back....

Either way, the funding model for the Beeb is coming under increasing scrutiny, and rightly so given its cost and magnitude, and for a lot of people it doesn't fit with their modern day consumption - those watching this kind of TV are in decline - I never watch live TV now.....too many models to make!

Cheers,
Alan

Quote from: Dr Al on November 13, 2019, 06:32:04 PM

Quote from: Snowwolflair on November 13, 2019, 06:07:09 PM
As I understand it the old detector vans picked up the fields of the magnetic scan coils on the old CRT TVs. 

I struggle to believe that, nothing scientific has ever been shown, even on request. Moreover, from a physics point of view, magnetism can be even more difficult to detect than other detectable signals - it falls off with distance cubed (for a basic dipole at least), so the physics sounds against what they claim - at 10 metres away a signal will be a factor of 1000 lower than at 1 metre away (and the van would be on the street, so would be this kind of distance away). That's before one considers any deformation in the magnetic field provided by metallic objects in the path (window frames, cars, etc).

If they did exist, surely there'd have been more evidence, primarily that of genuine convictions based on evidence provided by the  said apparatus (I mean if the Beeb got folk convicted then they'd have conveyed that surely to show they can enforce it and come after folks). In fairness, I'm sure vans with this written on them did exist, but only to scare folk into paying, and very little equipment in the back....

Either way, the funding model for the Beeb is coming under increasing scrutiny, and rightly so given its cost and magnitude, and for a lot of people it doesn't fit with their modern day consumption - those watching this kind of TV are in decline - I never watch live TV now.....too many models to make!

Cheers,
Alan

From the Post Office technical journal.

Interesting.....convenient lack of detailed experimental data from the actual testing though on subsequent pages. Subsequent article describes in detail the apparatus, but no experimental results from them.

Even if that existed and got to a functional genuinely operational form, it's never been used as evidence in a court, which seems somewhat odd.

Cheers,
Alan

Quote from: njee20 on November 13, 2019, 05:13:04 PM
If you never watch live TV then you don't need one (eg you only watch catch up services or streaming services), if you watch live you need a licence, regardless of device.

Not quite true. You can watch all catch up/streaming services except the BBC's - you're breaking the law if you use iplayer and you don't have a licence.

Quote from: Dr Al on November 13, 2019, 07:07:59 PM
Interesting.....convenient lack of detailed experimental data from the actual testing though on subsequent pages. Subsequent article describes in detail the apparatus, but no experimental results from them.

Even if that existed and got to a functional genuinely operational form, it's never been used as evidence in a court, which seems somewhat odd.

Cheers,
Alan

My father worked in television development from 1945 to 1978, both experimental and studio systems. He could never think of a practical way in which TV receivers could be successfully detected. He was convinced that 'detector vans' were a complete hoax and their only success was to jolt people into buying a licence just in case they had been caught. Whether modern digital systems are any different, I've no idea.

Cheers,

Chris

Quote from: class37025 on November 13, 2019, 03:21:07 PM

Quote from: keithfre on November 13, 2019, 02:27:50 PM
Here in Holland they abolished the TV licence many years ago and decided to fund TV from general taxation, based on the argument that virtually everyone watches TV.

off topic, but I seem to remember that years ago there was a suggestion the car tax would be got rid of, and an addition made to the cost of fuel to cover that and basic insurance .....

so everyone who filled up their car would be taxed, and also have third party insurance

While I advocated scrapping VED and putting it on fuel for many years (those with higher mileages and thirstier engines - such as me - automatically pay more), the option will disappear as we switch to electric vehicles.

Putting insurance on fuel seemed somewhat unfair though. I, as an experienced, low risk driver, would be paying as much (probably more due to higher miles) as a newly qualified, 17 year old running round in a badly maintained banger, with a family sized baked bean can for an exhaust, hardly visible blacked out lights, three bald tyres and a bunch of mates egging them on to go faster!

As I understand it the old detector vans picked up the fields of the magnetic scan coils on the old CRT TVs.  They disappeared as fast as plasma then LCD display TVs arrived.
[/quote]

My understanding of it was they could detect the crystal oscillators in the tv's tuner.

As for the optical device detecting the picture through you curtains, i can hear the vonversation at the door now, sorry mate it's not a TV show, I am playing a computer game, goodbye.

They claim they can detect all sorts without actually being able to detect anything.

I'll try and post this again as it disappeared into the ether..
Automatic 3rd party insurance seems to work work in New Zealand.
https://www.aa.co.nz/insurance/car-and-vehicle-insurance/third-party-car-insurance/third-party-insurance/

I work with extremely sensitive equipment, if someone walks to the window looking into the lab from the outer lab it will upset the readings

I could take a spectrum analyser add an Ariel, and detect the IF stages of an old analogue TV no problem they were very leaky and say what channel they were watching..

Digital is more difficult, the electronic noise of a digital  TV would be almost the same as that of a computer. So your only chance would be the conversion stages from the 470 – 790 MHz of Broadcast TV. But modern conversion circuits are very much lower in power, and probably be swamped in the digital noise..