There is a suggestion of a new King model from KR Models. CAD illustration shown on their Facebook page, but precious little else.

The question has been asked directly of KR Models and they have stated it is NOT the DJM King.

Best

Scott

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/149017-kr-models-n-gauge-king/&tab=comments#comment-3726016

Interesting. The CAD uses the same colours as the DJM version did, but there are differences in the two CADs on RM Web.

I think that folk will be very wary until they see how the OO GT3 comes out, given there is not an N gauge GT3 coming soon, and these guys are not exactly round the corner or likely to turn up at TINGS or Warley?

It feels a bit like staking a claim before testing the water, just in case anyone else was thinking of making a King.

Just my tuppenceworth

Bring on the 56xx. Much more useful loco.

Best
Bob

Bob, they were at Warley last year and I'm pretty sure they are at Warley again this year.

Best

Scott

I stand corrected. thanks.
Perhaps someone who goes to Warley will get the lowdown for us then.
Bob

It is stated on the RM Web discussion that the DJM king failed to make the numbers so interesting that someone else would try to make one.

Not a GWR man I wouldnt be interested so paid no attention to the DJM ones coming and disappearing

BUT

Did the DJM one fail because nobody wants a King or because DJM was run by Dave Jones who many seemed to have a dislike towards. I dont know the situation as we weren't customers of his and I neither like or dislike the bloke

BUT

A good couple of genuine blokes who run a crowdfunded manufacturing company (Ben & Mike) have always delivered what they have told us they will deliver, delivered absolutely amazing models with next to no hassle and I dont even know if they've ever delivered a project late?

So would it appear that if a well respected company was to produce a King the support would be there or like Bob says this maybe just try to stop anyone else having a go??

No idea, not a loco for me so will see what happens I guess.

The DJM one failed cos the entire business failed.

AFAIK KR haven't produced anything yet, this is their 3rd announcement, so we'll see.

John P

So far then, to me, it all sounds like DJM déjà vu. No delivered products, but still new announcements.

Direct link to the Facebook post which is included as an image on the RMweb page: https://www.facebook.com/krmodels.uk/photos/a.180899975953317/447572162619429/

(seems to be publicly accessible, no Facebook account required to view).

Quote from: exmouthcraig on November 09, 2019, 01:58:57 PM
A good couple of genuine blokes who run a crowdfunded manufacturing company (Ben & Mike) have always delivered what they have told us they will deliver, delivered absolutely amazing models with next to no hassle and I dont even know if they've ever delivered a project late?

Ha, thanks for the kind words, Craig.

I might say that our models have never been late because we have never promised a delivery date! 

The truth is that everyone in manufacturing does their best to expedite the research, development and delivery of models as quickly as possible but sometimes issues arise that cause delays.  You may recall in the case of the Pendolino we had to go through three iterations of coupler to get one we and Rapido were satisfied with, so delays are just a part and parcel of the process I am afraid!

Cheers

Ben A.

Once bitten twice shy for me. I won't be putting up money for new models unless it is Revolution. The thing about revolution is that they have "proper jobs" and produce models in their spare time. This means they are unlikely to run out of cash. DJM had no other income so, when models failed to appear, failure was almost inevitable.
Don't know how KR Models are set up. Perhaps they need to show how their business model is funded before people have confidence in them. I would love to see a successful N gauge model from them but DJM have put lme off paying up front.
I bought a Dapol Brittania which is fine for the WR mainline and no longer need a king anyway.

Quote from: Chris Morris on November 09, 2019, 04:49:50 PM
The thing about revolution is that they have "proper jobs" and produce models in their spare time. This means they are unlikely to run out of cash. DJM had no other income so, when models failed to appear, failure was almost inevitable.

I know what you meant to say, but how you describe it is not how the two business models work (or failed). Revolution are totally crowdfunded and things wont progress unless there is cash in the bank. Their own salaries from their work has nothing to do with the business success or even potential failure of Revolution's models.
Their approach means they should not fail, but there is always a chance that a factory will do what they did to DJM and hold then to ransom over dies, for example (we dont actually know why this happened with DJM but it did happen twice).

DJM set out to be a manufacturer, and consequently had a different business model. This simple business model evolved with time. Some of DJM's revenue came from the traditional manufacturer's business model (the OO austerities IIRC), some came from crowdfunding held in a pot by Kernow Models (the successful OO Class 71 and the failed OO Class 74), some from design work for other manufacturers (and he has told me himself that this was one of the biggest mistakes he made, as it didnt give him enough of a revenue stream to live on, and it got in the way of his own projects), and some from the Revolution model of crowdfunding. This final approach was compounded by cash flow issues when he was ransomed over two dies (the OO 74 and the N Clayton IIRC) and he simply ran out of money.

I have faith in Revolution's financial acumen but they could still have a project that goes wrong. That is the risk with crowdfunding and that is why some will never invest in a model that is crowdfunded, whether a Revolution one or not.

HTH
Bob

To be fair, as the OP I was hoping we could avoid the DJM conversation by clarifying KRMs quoted position. I was clearly naive. But could we maybe just leave that alone for now?

I think because its a King, comparisons are inevitable, and KR have not exactly covered themselves in N gauge glory so far either. I felt with the GT3 that it was a take it or leave it approach, and I guess if your main market is OO then with the other gauges (they are offering GT3 in O gauge too) you are just waving a sign saying if you want it, come get it, or we wont do it.

I'm done on this one anyway. I've never wanted a King, from any manufacturer, but I do think clarity on the business models is important. KR is simple crowdfunding, but have not delivered anything in any scale as yet. Chris is right to have his doubts. I'd like to see KR deliver one thing in one scale successfully, and then I'll eat my N scale hat.

For example, I've paid for a load of Cemflos from Accurascale, because they've done decent work in OO with crowdfunding too.

Cheerio
Bob

Quote from: Bob G on November 09, 2019, 07:33:05 PM
I think because its a King, comparisons are inevitable, and KR have not exactly covered themselves in N gauge glory so far either. I felt with the GT3 that it was a take it or leave it approach, and I guess if your main market is OO then with the other gauges (they are offering GT3 in O gauge too) you are just waving a sign saying if you want it, come get it, or we wont do it.

I'm done on this one anyway. I've never wanted a King, from any manufacturer, but I do think clarity on the business models is important. KR is simple crowdfunding, but have not delivered anything in any scale as yet. Chris is right to have his doubts. I'd like to see KR deliver one thing in one scale successfully, and then I'll eat my N scale hat.

For example, I've paid for a load of Cemflos from Accurascale, because they've done decent work in OO with crowdfunding too.

Cheerio
Bob

I know, Bob, it wasn't a criticism more a forlorn observation.

I just don't like focusing on the negative.

Best

Scott

Quote from: Bob G on November 09, 2019, 07:33:05 PM
I felt with the GT3 that it was a take it or leave it approach

I think this hits the nail on the head.  The N gauge market is smaller and I can't help but feel that a much more widely-spread prototype (such as the 43xx/63xx Moguls or Large Prairie for example) would have had a better chance of attracting the sufficient interest to get it off of the mark.

I really do want the King to go forward though, I model late 50's WR and this would fit in nicely, as such if it gets to that stage I will purchase a couple.  I just hope that the choice of prototype here, for a first model in N gauge for this manufacturer, has a wide-enough appeal to go ahead...