So to summarise the last few post in this thread:

Wishlist on new models "Want Dapol to announce" (because the posters want them)

Same Posters:

"Want Dapol to stop announcing new stuff and get stuff they've announced in the shops quicker"

Same Posters also

"want Dapol to take more time to get better quality"

Arguments against "High quality, upgraded re-releases."

But same Poster "would like a better 9F"

All clear to everyone       

I'm very happy that Dapol finally delivered the class 50, and very nice it is too. It's great that they have decided to carry on with the BoB. Over the last few years we have had the 142, the 68 and the 50 so a nice steady stream of new items.  They also re-release existing models in new liveries. I say thanks Dapol for continuing with N and well done.
PS Could we have a pacer in chocolate and cream on the next run please?

Quote from: PLD on September 22, 2019, 09:37:11 PM
So to summarise the last few post in this thread:

Wishlist on new models "Want Dapol to announce" (because the posters want them)

Same Posters:

"Want Dapol to stop announcing new stuff and get stuff they've announced in the shops quicker"

Same Posters also

"want Dapol to take more time to get better quality"

Arguments against "High quality, upgraded re-releases."

But same Poster "would like a better 9F"

All clear to everyone       

There is nothing like being quoted out of context.
My reply (initially regarding the Crosti 9F post, but not entirely related to this and more reflecting previous posts) was that (and you can interpret this any way you like) we would like a better 9F (i.e. if Graham Farish did one we would have been happier from the start).
And would you not want a better 9F? Tell me if you are more than happy with your current one, please.
Nothing to do with Dapol reworking their own 9F at all.
Sorry to be the butt of your joke.
Bob

Quote from: Chris Morris on September 22, 2019, 10:11:29 PM
PS Could we have a pacer in chocolate and cream on the next run please?

Dapol have said they would not be doing a chocolate and cream one. Something to do with their perceived failure on the WR (LOL) or maybe to do with not doing the correct early bus doors (LOL)
Whatever, they lost my business on the 142 about ten years ago.
Bob

Quote from: Bob G on September 22, 2019, 10:14:56 PM

Quote from: Chris Morris on September 22, 2019, 10:11:29 PM
PS Could we have a pacer in chocolate and cream on the next run please?

Dapol have said they would not be doing a chocolate and cream one. Something to do with their perceived failure on the WR (LOL) or maybe to do with not doing the correct early bus doors (LOL)
Whatever, they lost my business on the 142 about ten years ago.
Bob

The doors issue is probably more relevant.

The Mark 3 retooling to get the different doors on the prototypes has been done in such a way as to allow them to do some (probably not all) of the alternate doors that train operating companies have engineered onto the real things.  Without this new product (done to support the power cars) the cost of changing doors would have been prohibitive.

Don't forget almost ANY retooling costs upwards of £10k.  If the model sells 1000 you need to add £10 to the cost of each to cover this cost.  If the tooling is £50K (which I've heard also) that unit cost is £60.  How many Chocolate and Cream 142s would they sell?  300?  - that is a "normal" production run.  Would people stump up an extra £30 for the unit in this colour?

Tooling for OO and O is NOT vastly more expensive than for N.  The difference is in the number of units that tooling cost is shared amongst.  OO sells about 5 times as many of any given design.  O gauge is a lot pricier.  Both are much more profitable for any company.

One more aside - I can't remember which model it was (it was one of the O-gauge ones) but the comment was made that production will commence AT CHIRK as soon as the completed tooling has arrived from China.   Dapol has put a lot of money into adding equipment into their factory and into training their people to work these.  However the machines that make the tools from CAD are extremely expensive, and I suspect that while Dapol would like to have control in house it will take a few years to get to that stage.

Les

As no one has mentioned it.

What's a "Crusty 9F"?

Sorry.

Was there any mention of a revamp/re-run of their Voyager?

Thanks,

John P

Quote from: jpendle on September 22, 2019, 11:20:13 PM


Was there any mention of a revamp/re-run of their Voyager?

Thanks,

John P

No.

Les

Quote from: jpendle on September 22, 2019, 11:20:13 PM
As no one has mentioned it.

What's a "Crusty 9F"?

Hi John - I think this is what's being referred to :

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franco-Crosti_boiler

Mike

Not on my wish list - I've already got one! (converted Minitrix - thanks, John)

Quote from: Les1952 on September 22, 2019, 10:44:48 PM


The doors issue is probably more relevant.

The Mark 3 retooling to get the different doors on the prototypes has been done in such a way as to allow them to do some (probably not all) of the alternate doors that train operating companies have engineered onto the real things.  Without this new product (done to support the power cars) the cost of changing doors would have been prohibitive.

Don't forget almost ANY retooling costs upwards of £10k.  If the model sells 1000 you need to add £10 to the cost of each to cover this cost.  If the tooling is £50K (which I've heard also) that unit cost is £60.  How many Chocolate and Cream 142s would they sell?  300?  - that is a "normal" production run.  Would people stump up an extra £30 for the unit in this colour?

Tooling for OO and O is NOT vastly more expensive than for N.  The difference is in the number of units that tooling cost is shared amongst.  OO sells about 5 times as many of any given design.  O gauge is a lot pricier.  Both are much more profitable for any company.

One more aside - I can't remember which model it was (it was one of the O-gauge ones) but the comment was made that production will commence AT CHIRK as soon as the completed tooling has arrived from China.   Dapol has put a lot of money into adding equipment into their factory and into training their people to work these.  However the machines that make the tools from CAD are extremely expensive, and I suspect that while Dapol would like to have control in house it will take a few years to get to that stage.

Les

This sums up Dapols future strategy, with the mk 3s, each TOC has a different version of plug doors and not all versions will be made, it is all to do with cost versus sales equals profitability. The dies have interchangeable slides for the sides and new tooling for the roofs. As for the decals for the sleepers, which will be the rub down type, the reasoning behind this is when the coaches are produced you can buy a rake straight away and number them without waiting for the factory to produce the numbers you want. This also means Dapol have less to produce and possibly less dead stock.
We have to bear in mind production costs have increased dramatically in China, all paid for in dollars and the pound has weakened against the dollar which limits how many items a company can invest in at any given time with no guarantee of sales. I feel it is wrong to compare Dapol with Revolution and the like, Dapol have far more overheads and the crowd funded models have assured sales.

Geoff

Hi all,

Geoff is right.  Revolution's financial model is very different to Dapol's and it is a little unfair to compare the two.

Revolution are flexible, but can only produce models where enough customers are willing to put their money upfront because they want the model and trust us to deliver.

I don't think the hobby could function if every manufacturer acted in that way, since there are plenty who prefer to wait and see a model before committing, even if it does, in the case of Revolution products, mean paying more.

I believe Dapol are right to pursue a financial strategy that above all keeps them in business.  And all their recent models that I have - 68, HIA, MJA - have been excellent.


Cheers

Ben A.

Hi
All I  add to Mk3 is that there just two types of non slam door on HST/ Mk3a fleets - The Chiltern plug door took ideas from Irish and Wessex Electrics with a plug door and are now in the minority. HSTs The industry through two leasing companies took on a sliding into a pocket door solution - this meant in plan that door and pocket would be fitted by removing an existing section of bodyside and remove the end door hinge pillar. Currently Scotrail, GWR and XC have fleets to the same pattern  TGS and trailer common to all but XC have helpfully got just 5 TCC =Trailer catering composite   vehicles with some bodyside blanks.  so Chiltern aside it is possible with to "do" new sets - but as these are shorter tooling cost spread over fewer vehicles so a cost jump more than assured. The Hst 252 model with the loco hauled roof could ensure the correct roof on the vehicles that were converted to trailers from Mk3a stock..
cheers
Robert     

Hi All,

We sadly (not for my wallet maybe) I wasn't able to make it to the open day so it's more my take on what has been said on here and from chatting to them at TINGS.
I have to agree with Ben that Dapol taking this approach that they are taking makes sense in the current market and lets be honest if they did what has happened in the past with the market been overwhelmed with new models and liveries it doesn't appear to have done them any favours previously with stock sat on their and shops shelves for extended periods!

I have to decide which 50 to get as I haven't got one yet they are lovely models with some flaws I know but honestly it looks right for me so either a GBRf or BR blue one to become 50008 as ran by Hanson Rail.

As for the M7 and BOB/WC well its good news even thought I have no idea what they are brands of kettles?  but hopefully after these the 59 may appear but time shall tell.

But away from the smart arse comments its good to hear things are progressing with the the HSDT and the Mk3 varieties especially the sleepers, and the idea of the decal sheets works I guess.
@Bob Tidbury if you are after something to rung after your 68s you could use a blue/grey rake:

maybe not the plug doors but well no one can say it never ran like that!

   acko22 I might do that or get vynals from Adam .
I have got Mk3s  in blue grey so will use those for the moment but without branding ,untill I can afford some more coaches and the vynals .
Bob Tidbury

I will be keen to have some of the new Dapol Mk3 sleepers

I have a lot of their current Mk3s and they are great coaches and importantly sell at a reasonable price

My view is that Dapol are producing coaches and wagons of great quality at the right price, not like a certain other major player